I never would have expected this result to come out of the Ninth Circuit. Their opinion stating that this is “medical treatment” and not a “vaccine” is earth-shattering.
Also, had I not been on Twitter (er, X) yesterday, I would never have known this ruling happened. A Google news search only shows Calmatters and a law site. Clearly we’re not supposed to know that a liberal court concluded that the mandates were flawed.
I wonder if the government will hang their hat on the new definition of vaccines? It's almost as if that was a preemptive move, done in the still of the night, to head off a potential ruling like this.
I’m sure they’ll try but if so then that just further distinguishes the present case from the precedent cited by the district court in dismissing the case.
Alex Berenson has discussed this very early in the MRNA release. He highlighted that the technology had been considered more akin to gene therapy and had been largely a failure in humans for treatment of other ailments. When it started to become obvious that they weren’t stopping the spread - which was actually pretty early on - the CDC changed the definition of vaccine. It was all incredibly shady.
Yet the ruling did not go far enough to state the legal protections given to big pharma over these clot shots were null and void as a result of this decision. So the 9th Circus did what they always do. Throw a wrench into the machine only so far as to be forced to have to call another mechanic to fix the issue. Although this ruling sets pivotal lehal precedence to bring down that house of cards, it's going to take another legal team and millions more to hopefully remove those emergency protections Pfizer and Moderna received by Uncle Sugar. Possibly leaving open a glimmer of hope for defeat as it will undoubtedly be a GOP legal team who will ultimately snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as is thatmpaety"s perview.
I'm not as hopeful as many of you here. There's not one aspect of our government system I have any faith on and distrust it in toto.
Yes, but this isn't about lib or conservative. The decision is a clarion call to the rule of law. And restraining the executive branch from thinking themselves kings rather than public servants.
Wow. Good thing Processor Wiley is looking out for the poor, defenseless government, which is being bullied by these big bad citizens cruelly trying to exercise their basic rights to bodily autonomy. If Wiley doesn't speak our for the poor, defenseless government, who will? Also, no surprise that Trump was ultimately involved. Anytime the poor, defenseless government is being attacked by mean citizens, you can bet the Orange Man is behind it.
Indeed! Although I think my clumsy Neanderthal fingers just hit the wrong key, but “Processor” does describe her better than “Professor.” You wouldn’t even need a computer chip to replace her: just a Magic 8 Ball with a few Marxcissist slogans like “assault on our democracy” and “trust The Science” and so forth. Probably no more than five slogans would cover her full range of responses.
I’ve recently gotten into peptide therapy. Stuff for joint healing and gut repair, etc. Compounds that have been studied off and on for decades. And when I mention this to people, they get alarmed because the FDA says these kinds of compounds are not well-studied enough and potentially harmful. And when I point out these same geniuses said the covid shot was effective and safe after absolutely zero study and a whole lot of hocus pocus, they still say at least that was for an emergency situation that protected the community.
I’m not kidding that I heard that. Today.
We haven’t made our local leaders pay for their cowardice enough. Not nearly enough.
Julie's thread is where I first heard about the opinion. Jay Bhattacharya's made this point about the vaccines for a long time: if they don't stop transmission and infection, how can a government justify forcing them on people?
Meanwhile in Canuck land (Canada) in the Wokest province of them all: British Columbia…
The BC Supreme Court upheld the Covid vaccine mandate for healthcare workers that continues to this day. Yes, we still have Covid vaccine mandates here. No wonder we have a nursing and medical staff shortages.
Last I read 23% of the folks in my province have all their boosters up to date. Highest by far in Canada. Imagine how much fun being Covid unvaccinated was for me in 2021/2022. Fun times indeed!
I work in government and I knew, as soon as the government starting making rules about COVID that we were in for a bad time. Once government makes a decision, especially a bad, rushed decision, the decision is set in motion like a freight train on a track, and all future resources will be devoted to keeping that train on track, even if new track has to built, even if the train runs over existing towns and villages, even if parts of the train derail, even though no one knows where it is going, even if there is no conductor and no engineer. Keeping the train going is all there is. In fact, no one knows how to stop it. The longer it goes on the worse is it becomes. I mean, we still take shoes off in airports.
I've noticed a complete inability among elected officials to respond to arguments. They just do what they do, even in extremely local and small-town settings.
Yeah Chris, you're absolutely correct. They really hate being treated like the servant they actually are instead of one of our rulers most idiots think they are.
In Berkeley County SC, a couple years ago, we elected a new school board. Their first meeting they fired the school district atty (sued/lost), created a committee to clean out all schools/libraries/ lesson plans of homo/trans/bi books (they did).
They'll be re-elected in 26 I'm thinkin.
That's how we roll here in "nowhere" Berkeley County.
Agree. Very early in covid when Won't Someone Do Something was ratcheting up I was asking “What is the endpoint? What are the numbers? What does success mean? How do we know when we are going back to normal? WHAT IS THE PLAN?” and no one locally or nationally had any answers to that. That was the beginning of my massive paradigm shift into understanding: they have no idea, about anything, and furthermore, them knowing they have no idea did, does, and will not stop them from using the power we foolishly gave them to interfere in any of our lives for any reason that benefits them and they will offer no reasonable explanation and will ridicule you for thinking you have the right to one. I did not know this about our leaders before covid. I assumed they were with some exceptions generally reasonable, generally ethical, and generally competent. None of those assumptions was borne out.
So, if some gov't bureaucrat claims that a vax gives you real sterilizing immunity then the gov't CAN force you to take the vax? These people just showed us how they will lie about everything vax related. The CDC literally changed (9/2021) the definition of vaccine and vaccinated to remove the term "immunity". I'm done with vaccines and no one is going to force them on me no matter what efficacy numbers these clowns throw out there.
If I were a parent with a newborn, I would evaluate every individual vaccine and approve only the ones with proven efficacy, e.g., polio. Additionally, I would insist on no “mixed cocktails” like MMR. When I was a kid, those 3 were administered separately with much lower reaction rates.
And I’d have to homeschool, as schools only accept utter subservience on children’s vaccines.
I just started reading "Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies" and the section re MMR shows you're on to something. I also had only 3 vaxes as a kid.
I believe I got the smallpox vaccine as an infant, but most of the others either weren't routinely administered or weren't yet available, I guess. Like all my friends, I got chicken pox, a very nasty case of the measles that kept me out of school for a month, and rubella, but never mumps.
Not familiar with that one, but even reading the first chapter of "Turtles All The Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth" reveals how shoddy the science is. Lots of tricks available when doing trials of vaccine efficacy and safety.
My thought exactly. Even if an injection or medication stops infection and transmission, how about side effects? If it keeps you from getting mildly ill, but kills you with cardiac arrest or a massive clot six months later, the learned judges say okey-dokey? Not to mention that so-called effectiveness can also be a lie, based on meaningless fraudulent "studies" like Pfizer's ("well we never tested it for stopping transmission"--and the helpful "fact checkers" at Reuters say "well of course not, they weren't required to test for stopping transmission").
While it’s nice that “a” court has shown important signs of life, what I find most surprising and tremendously gratifying is “which” court is showing important signs of life.
So the CDC changed the definition of a vaccine to fit their needs, but the court pulled them back to the reason for the original definition because the original definition had a specific purpose that nullifies the purpose of the law if it is changed.
Actually, this bodes well for a lot of things, including the gender ideology scam.
Shocking anything good could actually come out of the "9th Circus" as Rush often refered to them! But hey, who'd have thought Trump could haul in 12 Million at a San Francisco fund raiser??? 😳
Professor Wiley thinks it’s “misguided “ not to allow the government to inject experimental goo into it’s citizens.
Just imagine what could happen if we had a REAL pandemic that actually killed healthy people.
We don’t want the government, the biggest entity this side of God, to hesitate to violate individual civil rights when Chicken Little starts screaming that something bad might happen! (I just read Daniel D’s post above as I was mulling over how I could possibly put more sarcasm into my next sentence. I see now that my comments are repetitive but since I typed this out with one finger on an iPhone I can’t bear to delete it)
Not quite there. First needs to be a case which exactly that the protections given to the corporations are no longer and never were legal. Then a case which answers if they can be sued. Then the benchmark cases. Then lots and lots of feet dragging. Want to see how this process will look like. Take a look at the Camp LeJeune cases.
Would this apply to requiring masks, too? How about requiring "social distancing" for schools, restaurants, etc. to stay open?
Neither measure is *proven* to "reduce severity" or "stop transmission" because if they *did* they would have and they clearly didn't.
If I'm wrong, show the evidence anywhere on planet earth that these actions reduced the severity of Covid or stopped transmission of the disease by locking down and wearing masks.
And if, as the Supreme Court says, "a competent person has a constitutionally protected liberty interest in refusing unwanted medical treatment may be inferred from [the Court’s] prior decisions(,)” then don't we have a right to refuse to comply with unproven mask mandates and social distancing mandates?
This is my jihad because without the forced behavior modifications of mask wearing and distancing governments and bureaucrats can't control you. They're left to "raise awareness" and make recommendations anyone can ignore.
However, require masks or other behavior that is clearly observable and you have control over the people, no need for guessing at vaccine status or wondering about their thoughts or private actions.
Example: Airports and airplanes *with* mask mandates were a very different experience to those without.
And a case can be made that it was a "battery" to have those mandates enforced because they were intended as "medical treatment" to prevent and lessen disease while having no proof of actually doing so.
Psychologically, I'm still battered from it. And financially, too.
I never would have expected this result to come out of the Ninth Circuit. Their opinion stating that this is “medical treatment” and not a “vaccine” is earth-shattering.
Also, had I not been on Twitter (er, X) yesterday, I would never have known this ruling happened. A Google news search only shows Calmatters and a law site. Clearly we’re not supposed to know that a liberal court concluded that the mandates were flawed.
Not flawed. Criminal.
That goes without saying to you and me. To the Ninth Circuit…
I wonder if the government will hang their hat on the new definition of vaccines? It's almost as if that was a preemptive move, done in the still of the night, to head off a potential ruling like this.
I’m sure they’ll try but if so then that just further distinguishes the present case from the precedent cited by the district court in dismissing the case.
YES!!! I love case law.
Being a Paralegal, (you know, the one who does all the "work" for their lawyer), case law/reseach is the bomb.
A good paralegal is hard to come by and if you’re lucky enough to get one you hold on to them like grim death. I hope your attorneys appreciate you!
Good point
The earth it did not shatter,
For all that really mattered,
Was that Fauci wasn´t found,
When a ruling came around.
I thought that I misread the headline, but no.
Alex Berenson has discussed this very early in the MRNA release. He highlighted that the technology had been considered more akin to gene therapy and had been largely a failure in humans for treatment of other ailments. When it started to become obvious that they weren’t stopping the spread - which was actually pretty early on - the CDC changed the definition of vaccine. It was all incredibly shady.
Yet the ruling did not go far enough to state the legal protections given to big pharma over these clot shots were null and void as a result of this decision. So the 9th Circus did what they always do. Throw a wrench into the machine only so far as to be forced to have to call another mechanic to fix the issue. Although this ruling sets pivotal lehal precedence to bring down that house of cards, it's going to take another legal team and millions more to hopefully remove those emergency protections Pfizer and Moderna received by Uncle Sugar. Possibly leaving open a glimmer of hope for defeat as it will undoubtedly be a GOP legal team who will ultimately snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as is thatmpaety"s perview.
I'm not as hopeful as many of you here. There's not one aspect of our government system I have any faith on and distrust it in toto.
Like!
Actually the ninth is no longer ultra lib.
Really? I’d love to hear more. Law isn’t my field so I don’t follow the courts much.
Trump replaced 50% of the court (they retired or died). They're mostly Constitutionalist at present.
Yes, but this isn't about lib or conservative. The decision is a clarion call to the rule of law. And restraining the executive branch from thinking themselves kings rather than public servants.
Wow. Good thing Processor Wiley is looking out for the poor, defenseless government, which is being bullied by these big bad citizens cruelly trying to exercise their basic rights to bodily autonomy. If Wiley doesn't speak our for the poor, defenseless government, who will? Also, no surprise that Trump was ultimately involved. Anytime the poor, defenseless government is being attacked by mean citizens, you can bet the Orange Man is behind it.
“Processor Wiley” is a rare autocorrect home run. She really could be replaced by a computer chip that produces the same output regardless of input.
Indeed! Although I think my clumsy Neanderthal fingers just hit the wrong key, but “Processor” does describe her better than “Professor.” You wouldn’t even need a computer chip to replace her: just a Magic 8 Ball with a few Marxcissist slogans like “assault on our democracy” and “trust The Science” and so forth. Probably no more than five slogans would cover her full range of responses.
lol
I’ve recently gotten into peptide therapy. Stuff for joint healing and gut repair, etc. Compounds that have been studied off and on for decades. And when I mention this to people, they get alarmed because the FDA says these kinds of compounds are not well-studied enough and potentially harmful. And when I point out these same geniuses said the covid shot was effective and safe after absolutely zero study and a whole lot of hocus pocus, they still say at least that was for an emergency situation that protected the community.
I’m not kidding that I heard that. Today.
We haven’t made our local leaders pay for their cowardice enough. Not nearly enough.
Whenever you hear or read "FDA approved" understand that it increasingly means "the right people have been paid."
YES.
The covid cabalists haven't paid anything at all, which is why you heard that today.
Not NEARLY enough. Agreed
Julie's thread is where I first heard about the opinion. Jay Bhattacharya's made this point about the vaccines for a long time: if they don't stop transmission and infection, how can a government justify forcing them on people?
wait til the court finds out that the fda admits that even the childhood vax schedule doesn't offer immunity or prevent transmission, e.g. this weaselworded admission https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis/vis-statements/dtap.html
next few months gonna be interesting!
WOW
Meanwhile in Canuck land (Canada) in the Wokest province of them all: British Columbia…
The BC Supreme Court upheld the Covid vaccine mandate for healthcare workers that continues to this day. Yes, we still have Covid vaccine mandates here. No wonder we have a nursing and medical staff shortages.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7205763
Last I read 23% of the folks in my province have all their boosters up to date. Highest by far in Canada. Imagine how much fun being Covid unvaccinated was for me in 2021/2022. Fun times indeed!
Canada is still paying the price, for all those years of playing hockey without helmets.
lol
ONLY 23%?!? Sounds like JT’s Ministry of Truth is falling down on the job…
My province is even more Woke than Trudeau and the federal government.
We have safe supply here.
The idea of being more woke than Peoplekind
Trudeau is like inventing a faster-than-light drive, but in a bad way…
Does up to date there mean every six months still?
Looks like around 6-8 months.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/covid-19/vaccine/register
I'm so sorry for your position, used to be Canadians had common sense.
Like many countries it is the authoritarian politicians, bureaucrats and academics versus freedom lovers.
And it is still absolutely beautiful where I live.
I work in government and I knew, as soon as the government starting making rules about COVID that we were in for a bad time. Once government makes a decision, especially a bad, rushed decision, the decision is set in motion like a freight train on a track, and all future resources will be devoted to keeping that train on track, even if new track has to built, even if the train runs over existing towns and villages, even if parts of the train derail, even though no one knows where it is going, even if there is no conductor and no engineer. Keeping the train going is all there is. In fact, no one knows how to stop it. The longer it goes on the worse is it becomes. I mean, we still take shoes off in airports.
I've noticed a complete inability among elected officials to respond to arguments. They just do what they do, even in extremely local and small-town settings.
Yeah Chris, you're absolutely correct. They really hate being treated like the servant they actually are instead of one of our rulers most idiots think they are.
In Berkeley County SC, a couple years ago, we elected a new school board. Their first meeting they fired the school district atty (sued/lost), created a committee to clean out all schools/libraries/ lesson plans of homo/trans/bi books (they did).
They'll be re-elected in 26 I'm thinkin.
That's how we roll here in "nowhere" Berkeley County.
Agree. Very early in covid when Won't Someone Do Something was ratcheting up I was asking “What is the endpoint? What are the numbers? What does success mean? How do we know when we are going back to normal? WHAT IS THE PLAN?” and no one locally or nationally had any answers to that. That was the beginning of my massive paradigm shift into understanding: they have no idea, about anything, and furthermore, them knowing they have no idea did, does, and will not stop them from using the power we foolishly gave them to interfere in any of our lives for any reason that benefits them and they will offer no reasonable explanation and will ridicule you for thinking you have the right to one. I did not know this about our leaders before covid. I assumed they were with some exceptions generally reasonable, generally ethical, and generally competent. None of those assumptions was borne out.
politics is equal to corruption is not an analogy it is the road to fascism
OMG you are so correct.
So, if some gov't bureaucrat claims that a vax gives you real sterilizing immunity then the gov't CAN force you to take the vax? These people just showed us how they will lie about everything vax related. The CDC literally changed (9/2021) the definition of vaccine and vaccinated to remove the term "immunity". I'm done with vaccines and no one is going to force them on me no matter what efficacy numbers these clowns throw out there.
If I were a parent with a newborn, I would evaluate every individual vaccine and approve only the ones with proven efficacy, e.g., polio. Additionally, I would insist on no “mixed cocktails” like MMR. When I was a kid, those 3 were administered separately with much lower reaction rates.
And I’d have to homeschool, as schools only accept utter subservience on children’s vaccines.
I just started reading "Miller's Review of Critical Vaccine Studies" and the section re MMR shows you're on to something. I also had only 3 vaxes as a kid.
The rubella vax didn’t work for me, but as I didn’t get mumps, (regular) measles or chicken pox, I considered myself very lucky.
I believe I got the smallpox vaccine as an infant, but most of the others either weren't routinely administered or weren't yet available, I guess. Like all my friends, I got chicken pox, a very nasty case of the measles that kept me out of school for a month, and rubella, but never mumps.
Not familiar with that one, but even reading the first chapter of "Turtles All The Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth" reveals how shoddy the science is. Lots of tricks available when doing trials of vaccine efficacy and safety.
Good for you. I can’t imagine being a parent of a young child who is expected to run a veritable gauntlet of vaccines.
My thought exactly. Even if an injection or medication stops infection and transmission, how about side effects? If it keeps you from getting mildly ill, but kills you with cardiac arrest or a massive clot six months later, the learned judges say okey-dokey? Not to mention that so-called effectiveness can also be a lie, based on meaningless fraudulent "studies" like Pfizer's ("well we never tested it for stopping transmission"--and the helpful "fact checkers" at Reuters say "well of course not, they weren't required to test for stopping transmission").
Why did I hear Homer Simpsons voice reading the bits in quotes? 🤔😂
While it’s nice that “a” court has shown important signs of life, what I find most surprising and tremendously gratifying is “which” court is showing important signs of life.
You go, 9th Circuit!
LIKE
So the CDC changed the definition of a vaccine to fit their needs, but the court pulled them back to the reason for the original definition because the original definition had a specific purpose that nullifies the purpose of the law if it is changed.
Actually, this bodes well for a lot of things, including the gender ideology scam.
Shocking anything good could actually come out of the "9th Circus" as Rush often refered to them! But hey, who'd have thought Trump could haul in 12 Million at a San Francisco fund raiser??? 😳
Trump changed that court to half Constitionalists.
Hell may not have frozen over, but it’s suffering a cooling trend.
9th circuit court is like that abusive parent or spouse…. Just when you thought all is well….🎭
Pfizer is probably sending agents to these judges houses
Maybe they will be “Boeinged”(kinda like being “Clintoned”)
Suicilenced*
WOW, lol. Creative mind-love it.
Professor Wiley thinks it’s “misguided “ not to allow the government to inject experimental goo into it’s citizens.
Just imagine what could happen if we had a REAL pandemic that actually killed healthy people.
We don’t want the government, the biggest entity this side of God, to hesitate to violate individual civil rights when Chicken Little starts screaming that something bad might happen! (I just read Daniel D’s post above as I was mulling over how I could possibly put more sarcasm into my next sentence. I see now that my comments are repetitive but since I typed this out with one finger on an iPhone I can’t bear to delete it)
Assault. I like that. Seems like a prosecutable offense. Let’s start prosecuting!!
Not quite there. First needs to be a case which exactly that the protections given to the corporations are no longer and never were legal. Then a case which answers if they can be sued. Then the benchmark cases. Then lots and lots of feet dragging. Want to see how this process will look like. Take a look at the Camp LeJeune cases.
Yes, so far the LeJune cases have been pretty fecked.
Would this apply to requiring masks, too? How about requiring "social distancing" for schools, restaurants, etc. to stay open?
Neither measure is *proven* to "reduce severity" or "stop transmission" because if they *did* they would have and they clearly didn't.
If I'm wrong, show the evidence anywhere on planet earth that these actions reduced the severity of Covid or stopped transmission of the disease by locking down and wearing masks.
And if, as the Supreme Court says, "a competent person has a constitutionally protected liberty interest in refusing unwanted medical treatment may be inferred from [the Court’s] prior decisions(,)” then don't we have a right to refuse to comply with unproven mask mandates and social distancing mandates?
This is my jihad because without the forced behavior modifications of mask wearing and distancing governments and bureaucrats can't control you. They're left to "raise awareness" and make recommendations anyone can ignore.
However, require masks or other behavior that is clearly observable and you have control over the people, no need for guessing at vaccine status or wondering about their thoughts or private actions.
Example: Airports and airplanes *with* mask mandates were a very different experience to those without.
And a case can be made that it was a "battery" to have those mandates enforced because they were intended as "medical treatment" to prevent and lessen disease while having no proof of actually doing so.
Psychologically, I'm still battered from it. And financially, too.
Brilliantly said!!
LIKE