Breaking! Investigation of university campuses finds "Planned Parenthood" clinics operating on university grounds, working with university administrators to target young women. The misleading name of the organization distracts from its purpose, which, far from enabling young women to plan their lives as parents, is actually intended to PREVENT parenthood, both by convincing young women to ingest dangerous drugs that can harm their reproductive systems for life and, in extreme circumstances, execute their unborn children.
I went to Planned Parenthood centers for many years for my reproductive health care. They didn't try to convince me of anything. I went there because I knew they offered what I wanted, which at the time was reproductive healthcare in the form of contraceptives. This enabled me to plan my life as a parent by becoming a parent when I WANTED to.
This is not the same as these "crisis pregnancy centers", which aren't very straightforward about their mission, at least the one I had direct experience with.
Idiot with a lie about President Trump Margaret Sanger, democrat and an American Nazi targeted the "mud people" to destroy blacks, browns, reds and yellow.s.
The implication always seems to be that they're a bait-and-switch; that young women who know they're pregnant and are actively seeking abortion services go to a place that advertises itself misleadingly and A-HA, ends up being a bunch of Jesus freaks that, um, hold you down until 12 weeks or whatever have passed or keep talking to you and you're too polite to leave?
I made sure to not have to deal with this kind of shit when I was in college, so I honestly don't know if this was a thing 20 years ago.
Either way, the allegations of stories like this are serious, and that usually demands some kind of evidence to mean anything. What exactly is the charge here? False advertising? Coercion? Intimidation? Kidnapping?
All I've been able to see in any of these stories is people finding themselves engaged in uncomfortable conversations and equating it with the worst kind of violence to their person.
But avoiding discomfort and consequences of actions is what it's all about. How dare someone remind this person that her inability to locate easily located contraception resulted in the destruction of a potential human life?
I know women who had abortions. I don't judge them. I don't know what I'd do. But in this case, we're dealing with someone who's had contraception and birth control preached to her since middle school at least and is now in her twenties, probably, and didn't use a bit of that information and she wants us to feel sorry for her because someone reminded her that there are consequences for her laziness and risky behavior and made her feel uncomfortable for not taking responsibility? Come on.
I've worked in marketing. But I've also worked in public mental health and content creation and language and (currently) management consulting.
In all of these- whether you're in a business context or an interpersonal context- a "grown up" realization you come to (or hopefully already have, and help your clients come to) is that What Actually Happens is What Matters: you can WANT people to see things a certain way, you can HOPE people see things a certain way, but you can't simply act as though you're already correct- even if you might actually be factually correct (which is often a lot more nuanced than it appears), if no one is going along with it, you can bitch and complain all you want but it won't change things.
All this to say that there are two aspects to this situation: A) there is, like nearly everything the left is doing, a willful misrepresentation, exaggeration, and creation of victims in this instance to cast their opponents in the worst possible light, but there is also B) the need for "crisis-pregnancy centers" (I would start by finding a better term to identify themselves, for one thing) to do more work in explaining and representing themselves clearly and accurately, including the benefits they can provide and what they are and are not.
Here's a caveat/additional to this (again, I'm at least partly playing devil's advocate): are crisis-pregnancy centers opposed to clearly stating in their materials, "we do not offer abortion services or assistance terminating a pregnancy, but instead offer and educate about alternatives including adoption"?
The answer to this question would- from a purely analytic perspective- tell me a lot.
The answer to that question relies on the assumptions of the person *or* society answering it.
If you answer yes, then your assumption is that the fetus is just another tumor and abortion is akin to having a wart removed and that abortion is not just accepted but in some ways actively encouraged.
If you answer no, then your assumption is that there is something unique about pregnancy and that, whether or not you buy the human from conception point of view, there is something uniquely grotesque about using abortion as simply another form of contraception because it does result in a whole sale destruction of (potential) humans.
I know that's probably an oversimplification. And I'm not on either end of the spectrum when it comes to abortion, and abortion can mean anything form the morning after pill (which seems like it should be widely available over the counter, as should birth control, IMO) to what most people would see as infanticide. The argument gets a bit muddled when you aren't somewhat specific.
But what is bothering me here, and the way *I* would answer this question, is that there is so much out there these days about sex, pregnancy, and abortion that most women who get pregnant (other than those raised in strict religious homes) will know what a "pregnancy crisis center" is the moment they walk in and other than suffering slight discomfort before they walk out, they are only momentarily "inconvenienced" in their quest to rid themselves of the fetus. And any protestations to the contrary strike me as a search for sympathy and validation rather than honest complaints. So there is no more reason for the "crisis" center to give its specific mission than for Planned Parenthood to get specific about its mission, including the fact that they often supply fetal remains to science labs and make a certain amount of money doing so.
The answer to that question requires a lengthy and elaborate discussion of what a pregnancy and baby is?
Why?
All I'm asking is, are pregnancy-crisis centers willing to state up front "we do not offer abortions"?
That shouldn't require entering into a philosophical, moral, or even scientific discussion about when life begins.
Everyone understands what an abortion is. A pregnancy-crisis center, if it is honest in its aims, should have no difficulty stating upfront, "we do not do this. "
I wrote long answer but at the end I came to the conclusion that in my mind answers your question.
If you force "crisis" centers to declare upfront that they don't offer abortions, then you have automatically accepted that abortion is the norm and carrying a child full term when you're unexpectedly pregnant is the outlier. That seems like a societal attitude worth examining, no?
On the other hand, to the "crisis" center, abortion is not even among the options and in their minds they're trying to save a child, so luring women in and trying to change their minds is fair game, and really what does it cost the woman who walks in? In a few cases, she may discover ways to hang on to a child she might have otherwise aborted and that will be a good thing for her or for a family that gets to adopt the child. And if she's set on an abortion, I don't think any amount of talking is going to change her mind. It's pretty much a non-issue.
Yes it was a thing 20 years ago in the small town where I lived. What bothered me was the bait-and-switch aspect. It's not hard to pressure unsophisticated young girls who are already rather desperate at finding themselves pregnant. Not that I would equate intimidation, which reportedly there actually was, with "the worst kind of violence to their person".
Well, that's the part of this that has to be challenged in general. Conversations are not violence. But manipulation is manipulation, and if you don't want to be characterized that way, it's your job- fairly or unfairly- to clarify your brand.
"...that there’s an enormous risk that a pregnancy may be ectopic." These people. I want to scream at them for their blatant, by design, disinformation LIES. It's taken 50 years, but the idea that babies are biological time bombs that will RUIN YOUR LIFE FOREVER is firmly entrenched in the liberal Karen population who also view all men everywhere, and at all time, as evil and horrible. By the same token, they celebrate and promote the hook-up sex, act like sluts themselves, sleep with their best friend's man, and thereby set the bar so low, so extremely low, you'd have to dig a hole to China just to limbo under it. They get equal measure of blame that a lot of men do act like a-holes, because the PICKINS ARE EASY AND THEY CAN, but I also blame Pornhub. Especially for giving out free subscriptions during the pandemic to ALL college students and anyone over 18. I was 10 when abortion became legal. And I remember my mom picketing abortion clinics back when you could get arrested for doing so. As my daughter, during her 5th year of the biomedical engineering program at RIT, use to say to me "Mom, every day is a new nightmare." Indeed.
LOL. Can you believe it?? And I had TWO daughters and survived. I need some kind of participation trophy for this, stat!! All kidding aside, yes it is painful to see. My second just graduated from college in May. I would never send another child to college at this point. I pray for good, holy and MANLY husbands for them. Their dad is a retired Naval Aviator with 3000 hours and 300 carrier landings off the USS Eisenhower. I cannot suffer these poor young men and I honestly wonder if there isn't something in the water, like estrogen from 50 years of birth control pills that have created such a bizarre situation. None of this soy boy sh*t makes a lick of sense, but you can also blame Disney and the sitcoms for making Dads look like bumbling fools. It's infuriating, really.
Thank you on his behalf, balls for sure -- 100 of those at night, too. Flew the S3-Viking in Persian Gulf and Norwegian Sea. Viking was an anti sub warfare and in-air re-fueler. Talk about dangerous. He flies an experimental now RV-8. If you are ever in the Fort Myers area... seriously.
Also yes I agree there are still good colleges out there -- slim pickings, but they do exist and I think they will circle the wagons. It's not over for sure.
Loved this article! Your humor and sarcasm is the perfect response to this so-called investigative journalism. Regardless of one's position on the underlying issues of the abortion debate, this absurdly stupid reporting deserves only mockery and derisive laughter. What a joke journalism has become in today's clown 🤡 world.
weirdly, commander, every planned parenthood in nyc is located in a black neighborhood or one that used to be. funny how we aren't hearing much about that.
I'm a bit more optimistic. Young people have bodies, with all the usual parts, and they do know how the opposing parts operate. Most of them even want to operate these mechanisms. Media-induced EXTREME unreality can ring for a while within a social circle, but most of the people who sing the song secretly realize it's nonsense. After they leave the social circle, the pressure to sing the correct song is gone, and the interior parts manage to take over.
i've noticed this lately- articles discussing the horrors of pregnancy, how it destroys your body (even though a woman's body was made for that purpose), then there's the weird language: "people with the capacity to get pregnant." you wonder how we got to this place where there are too many of us for the planet to support and we all have to die as soon as possible to save the earth so that the earthworms can enjoy the human free paradise and attempt to recreate civilization
i expect, as one commentor said wisely that their natural instincts will take hold and that they will actually enjoy getting pregnant and having a baby. no matter how much they are indoctrinated, the reality of hormones will do their job and nature bats last
The gifts God has granted you to convey information wrapped in entertainment is both a joy and a struggle consume. Maybe that is why He has thus gifted you. Thank you for stewarding it wisely.
We are simply witnessing an historic population decline in the developed world and its cultural side-effects. This is an inevitable reversion to the mean following centuries of explosive growth. Abortion mania is only one symptom among many.
Our population is crashing not only from a lack of enthusiasm for children. Involuntary celibacy was on the rise even before Covid, both among married couples and young adults. Even as far back as 2012-2013, one study showed 69% of women and 85% of men wanted more frequent sex. Then Covid hit. One US study showed the number of adults reporting sex with a new partner in the current year plunged to 7% in 2021 from 16% five years earlier -- a decline of more than half.
So it is certainly not true that we are living in a sexual free-for-all necessitating constant abortions. Plenty of people I know are going mad from lack of intimacy as they white-knuckle it through a sex strike that makes Lysistrata seem licentious. Nor is anybody forcing men to dissipate themselves with porn. They dissipate of their own free will, the only alternative being a modicum of restraint that has long gone out of fashion.
As for the abortive college women, in ten years they will have dogs instead of babies, and in ten more years that will be the end of their lines. It is the modal outcome where I live. Everywhere around me, arms that once would have carried babies now carry dogs instead. Compared to previous generations, my own three children sadly lack playmates inside and outside my family.
Completing this perfect anti-natalist storm, we are just beginning to discern the impact of the mRNA experiment on fertility, and it's not looking great.
On the bright side, this problem lasts only one generation, and then we are through the bottleneck.
It's certainly a meaningful time to be a parent when everyone else is shitting the bed, and I've found it helpful to re-read anthropologist J. D. Unwin's Sex and Culture, which describes how civilizational advancement is directly predicated on pre-nuptial chastity and fidelity within marriage. Unwin likewise shows that advanced civilizations collapse within three generations of abandoning pre-nuptial chastity. We're pretty much right on time.
Meanwhile, at 6:15pm PDT this evening, the Norwalk-La Mirada School District in Southern California will be voting whether or not to allow Planned Parenthood (an oxymoron if ever there was one) to open a clinic on one of their High School campuses. Yay Progress! I already feel empowered….
I no sooner finished typing this comment when a message was delivered - from the crisis pregnancy clinic that I support, no less - informing me that the meeting has been postponed - good news.
Breaking! Investigation of university campuses finds "Planned Parenthood" clinics operating on university grounds, working with university administrators to target young women. The misleading name of the organization distracts from its purpose, which, far from enabling young women to plan their lives as parents, is actually intended to PREVENT parenthood, both by convincing young women to ingest dangerous drugs that can harm their reproductive systems for life and, in extreme circumstances, execute their unborn children.
I went to Planned Parenthood centers for many years for my reproductive health care. They didn't try to convince me of anything. I went there because I knew they offered what I wanted, which at the time was reproductive healthcare in the form of contraceptives. This enabled me to plan my life as a parent by becoming a parent when I WANTED to.
This is not the same as these "crisis pregnancy centers", which aren't very straightforward about their mission, at least the one I had direct experience with.
Idiot with a lie about President Trump Margaret Sanger, democrat and an American Nazi targeted the "mud people" to destroy blacks, browns, reds and yellow.s.
Wilson,fdr,and sanger? All democrats
Maybe President Bush grew a heart . Wilson and Sanger founders of eugenics democrats.
The implication always seems to be that they're a bait-and-switch; that young women who know they're pregnant and are actively seeking abortion services go to a place that advertises itself misleadingly and A-HA, ends up being a bunch of Jesus freaks that, um, hold you down until 12 weeks or whatever have passed or keep talking to you and you're too polite to leave?
I made sure to not have to deal with this kind of shit when I was in college, so I honestly don't know if this was a thing 20 years ago.
Either way, the allegations of stories like this are serious, and that usually demands some kind of evidence to mean anything. What exactly is the charge here? False advertising? Coercion? Intimidation? Kidnapping?
All I've been able to see in any of these stories is people finding themselves engaged in uncomfortable conversations and equating it with the worst kind of violence to their person.
Which is, I guess, a thing these days.
But avoiding discomfort and consequences of actions is what it's all about. How dare someone remind this person that her inability to locate easily located contraception resulted in the destruction of a potential human life?
I know women who had abortions. I don't judge them. I don't know what I'd do. But in this case, we're dealing with someone who's had contraception and birth control preached to her since middle school at least and is now in her twenties, probably, and didn't use a bit of that information and she wants us to feel sorry for her because someone reminded her that there are consequences for her laziness and risky behavior and made her feel uncomfortable for not taking responsibility? Come on.
I've worked in marketing. But I've also worked in public mental health and content creation and language and (currently) management consulting.
In all of these- whether you're in a business context or an interpersonal context- a "grown up" realization you come to (or hopefully already have, and help your clients come to) is that What Actually Happens is What Matters: you can WANT people to see things a certain way, you can HOPE people see things a certain way, but you can't simply act as though you're already correct- even if you might actually be factually correct (which is often a lot more nuanced than it appears), if no one is going along with it, you can bitch and complain all you want but it won't change things.
All this to say that there are two aspects to this situation: A) there is, like nearly everything the left is doing, a willful misrepresentation, exaggeration, and creation of victims in this instance to cast their opponents in the worst possible light, but there is also B) the need for "crisis-pregnancy centers" (I would start by finding a better term to identify themselves, for one thing) to do more work in explaining and representing themselves clearly and accurately, including the benefits they can provide and what they are and are not.
Here's a caveat/additional to this (again, I'm at least partly playing devil's advocate): are crisis-pregnancy centers opposed to clearly stating in their materials, "we do not offer abortion services or assistance terminating a pregnancy, but instead offer and educate about alternatives including adoption"?
The answer to this question would- from a purely analytic perspective- tell me a lot.
The answer to that question relies on the assumptions of the person *or* society answering it.
If you answer yes, then your assumption is that the fetus is just another tumor and abortion is akin to having a wart removed and that abortion is not just accepted but in some ways actively encouraged.
If you answer no, then your assumption is that there is something unique about pregnancy and that, whether or not you buy the human from conception point of view, there is something uniquely grotesque about using abortion as simply another form of contraception because it does result in a whole sale destruction of (potential) humans.
I know that's probably an oversimplification. And I'm not on either end of the spectrum when it comes to abortion, and abortion can mean anything form the morning after pill (which seems like it should be widely available over the counter, as should birth control, IMO) to what most people would see as infanticide. The argument gets a bit muddled when you aren't somewhat specific.
But what is bothering me here, and the way *I* would answer this question, is that there is so much out there these days about sex, pregnancy, and abortion that most women who get pregnant (other than those raised in strict religious homes) will know what a "pregnancy crisis center" is the moment they walk in and other than suffering slight discomfort before they walk out, they are only momentarily "inconvenienced" in their quest to rid themselves of the fetus. And any protestations to the contrary strike me as a search for sympathy and validation rather than honest complaints. So there is no more reason for the "crisis" center to give its specific mission than for Planned Parenthood to get specific about its mission, including the fact that they often supply fetal remains to science labs and make a certain amount of money doing so.
The answer to that question requires a lengthy and elaborate discussion of what a pregnancy and baby is?
Why?
All I'm asking is, are pregnancy-crisis centers willing to state up front "we do not offer abortions"?
That shouldn't require entering into a philosophical, moral, or even scientific discussion about when life begins.
Everyone understands what an abortion is. A pregnancy-crisis center, if it is honest in its aims, should have no difficulty stating upfront, "we do not do this. "
I wrote long answer but at the end I came to the conclusion that in my mind answers your question.
If you force "crisis" centers to declare upfront that they don't offer abortions, then you have automatically accepted that abortion is the norm and carrying a child full term when you're unexpectedly pregnant is the outlier. That seems like a societal attitude worth examining, no?
On the other hand, to the "crisis" center, abortion is not even among the options and in their minds they're trying to save a child, so luring women in and trying to change their minds is fair game, and really what does it cost the woman who walks in? In a few cases, she may discover ways to hang on to a child she might have otherwise aborted and that will be a good thing for her or for a family that gets to adopt the child. And if she's set on an abortion, I don't think any amount of talking is going to change her mind. It's pretty much a non-issue.
Yes it was a thing 20 years ago in the small town where I lived. What bothered me was the bait-and-switch aspect. It's not hard to pressure unsophisticated young girls who are already rather desperate at finding themselves pregnant. Not that I would equate intimidation, which reportedly there actually was, with "the worst kind of violence to their person".
Well, that's the part of this that has to be challenged in general. Conversations are not violence. But manipulation is manipulation, and if you don't want to be characterized that way, it's your job- fairly or unfairly- to clarify your brand.
"...that there’s an enormous risk that a pregnancy may be ectopic." These people. I want to scream at them for their blatant, by design, disinformation LIES. It's taken 50 years, but the idea that babies are biological time bombs that will RUIN YOUR LIFE FOREVER is firmly entrenched in the liberal Karen population who also view all men everywhere, and at all time, as evil and horrible. By the same token, they celebrate and promote the hook-up sex, act like sluts themselves, sleep with their best friend's man, and thereby set the bar so low, so extremely low, you'd have to dig a hole to China just to limbo under it. They get equal measure of blame that a lot of men do act like a-holes, because the PICKINS ARE EASY AND THEY CAN, but I also blame Pornhub. Especially for giving out free subscriptions during the pandemic to ALL college students and anyone over 18. I was 10 when abortion became legal. And I remember my mom picketing abortion clinics back when you could get arrested for doing so. As my daughter, during her 5th year of the biomedical engineering program at RIT, use to say to me "Mom, every day is a new nightmare." Indeed.
Your daughter!?!?!? You had a child AND SURVIVED!?!?!?!?
There's certainly a theme to the culture, and it's painful to see.
LOL. Can you believe it?? And I had TWO daughters and survived. I need some kind of participation trophy for this, stat!! All kidding aside, yes it is painful to see. My second just graduated from college in May. I would never send another child to college at this point. I pray for good, holy and MANLY husbands for them. Their dad is a retired Naval Aviator with 3000 hours and 300 carrier landings off the USS Eisenhower. I cannot suffer these poor young men and I honestly wonder if there isn't something in the water, like estrogen from 50 years of birth control pills that have created such a bizarre situation. None of this soy boy sh*t makes a lick of sense, but you can also blame Disney and the sitcoms for making Dads look like bumbling fools. It's infuriating, really.
There are still some colleges that aren't garbage. Four years away with our daughter, and already thinking about this exact dilemma.
And dude, 300 carrier landings. Balls.
Thank you on his behalf, balls for sure -- 100 of those at night, too. Flew the S3-Viking in Persian Gulf and Norwegian Sea. Viking was an anti sub warfare and in-air re-fueler. Talk about dangerous. He flies an experimental now RV-8. If you are ever in the Fort Myers area... seriously.
Also yes I agree there are still good colleges out there -- slim pickings, but they do exist and I think they will circle the wagons. It's not over for sure.
19th Amendment.
The ectopic pregnancy lie was the worst. The young woman and the writer used that excuse too fast.
I'm pro-abortion and even I think that's a stupid argument.
Loved this article! Your humor and sarcasm is the perfect response to this so-called investigative journalism. Regardless of one's position on the underlying issues of the abortion debate, this absurdly stupid reporting deserves only mockery and derisive laughter. What a joke journalism has become in today's clown 🤡 world.
weirdly, commander, every planned parenthood in nyc is located in a black neighborhood or one that used to be. funny how we aren't hearing much about that.
And Margaret Sanger smiles.
i don't think anyone is smiling where she's at now
I'm a bit more optimistic. Young people have bodies, with all the usual parts, and they do know how the opposing parts operate. Most of them even want to operate these mechanisms. Media-induced EXTREME unreality can ring for a while within a social circle, but most of the people who sing the song secretly realize it's nonsense. After they leave the social circle, the pressure to sing the correct song is gone, and the interior parts manage to take over.
i've noticed this lately- articles discussing the horrors of pregnancy, how it destroys your body (even though a woman's body was made for that purpose), then there's the weird language: "people with the capacity to get pregnant." you wonder how we got to this place where there are too many of us for the planet to support and we all have to die as soon as possible to save the earth so that the earthworms can enjoy the human free paradise and attempt to recreate civilization
There's a weird death lust in the air, and a hatred of life. Joylessness. Making babies is a horror!
i expect, as one commentor said wisely that their natural instincts will take hold and that they will actually enjoy getting pregnant and having a baby. no matter how much they are indoctrinated, the reality of hormones will do their job and nature bats last
Death Cults are not new, as you pointed out with Jones.
Neo-fascist Globalists Eugenicist Oligarchs gonna Malthus. Whatchagonnado?
The gifts God has granted you to convey information wrapped in entertainment is both a joy and a struggle consume. Maybe that is why He has thus gifted you. Thank you for stewarding it wisely.
A sad commentary on our culture; a culture of death.
Ok.
Is it just possible the Elites are Lizard people?
We perhaps should do some Investigative Reporting.
I don’t know if I’m being sarcastic.
Yes. Yes, they are.
We are simply witnessing an historic population decline in the developed world and its cultural side-effects. This is an inevitable reversion to the mean following centuries of explosive growth. Abortion mania is only one symptom among many.
Our population is crashing not only from a lack of enthusiasm for children. Involuntary celibacy was on the rise even before Covid, both among married couples and young adults. Even as far back as 2012-2013, one study showed 69% of women and 85% of men wanted more frequent sex. Then Covid hit. One US study showed the number of adults reporting sex with a new partner in the current year plunged to 7% in 2021 from 16% five years earlier -- a decline of more than half.
So it is certainly not true that we are living in a sexual free-for-all necessitating constant abortions. Plenty of people I know are going mad from lack of intimacy as they white-knuckle it through a sex strike that makes Lysistrata seem licentious. Nor is anybody forcing men to dissipate themselves with porn. They dissipate of their own free will, the only alternative being a modicum of restraint that has long gone out of fashion.
As for the abortive college women, in ten years they will have dogs instead of babies, and in ten more years that will be the end of their lines. It is the modal outcome where I live. Everywhere around me, arms that once would have carried babies now carry dogs instead. Compared to previous generations, my own three children sadly lack playmates inside and outside my family.
Completing this perfect anti-natalist storm, we are just beginning to discern the impact of the mRNA experiment on fertility, and it's not looking great.
On the bright side, this problem lasts only one generation, and then we are through the bottleneck.
It's certainly a meaningful time to be a parent when everyone else is shitting the bed, and I've found it helpful to re-read anthropologist J. D. Unwin's Sex and Culture, which describes how civilizational advancement is directly predicated on pre-nuptial chastity and fidelity within marriage. Unwin likewise shows that advanced civilizations collapse within three generations of abandoning pre-nuptial chastity. We're pretty much right on time.
The Luciferians are completely out of their holes at this point and they can’t hide any longer. Now, the inevitable conflict.
Nice to see you on Tucker!!
Meanwhile, at 6:15pm PDT this evening, the Norwalk-La Mirada School District in Southern California will be voting whether or not to allow Planned Parenthood (an oxymoron if ever there was one) to open a clinic on one of their High School campuses. Yay Progress! I already feel empowered….
I no sooner finished typing this comment when a message was delivered - from the crisis pregnancy clinic that I support, no less - informing me that the meeting has been postponed - good news.
I have unearthed shocking archival footage of our Elites from the 1980s .
https://youtu.be/WP49-qftyuk
Today that thing chairs a congressional committee.
And I thought he looked like our former president, elected in 2008.
There is no bridging with these people. They need to be mocked into oblivion and then roundly ignored for the crazy people they are.