Let me be honest. I don't just oppose moving to solar and wind power because it's inconsistent and not practical. I also just think these wind turbines and solar panels are so ugly covering the land. Further, the wind turbines kill thousands of birds every year.
We will dispose of the non-functional solar panels using precisely the same approach we currently use for most of our "recyclables". We will collect them, maximizing inconvenience to the public, at great expense, and will transport them to ports. Where they will be loaded onto ships and delivered to third world countries. Where some will undergo a token "recycling", but most will be burned or dumped into the nearest river, or the nearest ocean.
the article i ref below pretty much says that. its a 10x cost and a 1/10 quanity of recovery at best. So few will do it. It wasnt made to be. Cars, troublesome to recycle, are much easier. You basically get a lot of dirty ground glass.
Homeless shelters, a frame style. Kidding, I have no idea, they are probably toxic and I know they are fairly heavy/dense. The old solar panels are probably like forever chemicals, forever.
& they haven’t found way to recycle/dispose of massive turbines
& EV’s, Teslas are poster cars for child slave labor in mining, as well as destroying the environment in areas where mining for the voluminous quantities of rare earth minerals for batteries.
Partly false. Video exists of the BURIAL of used, defunct turbine blades that can't be recycled. Buried using LARGE, DIESEL-POWERED BULLDOZERS.... But, instead, they should be more creative, and make some type of architectural sculpture or structure out of them.... But yeah, the "climate crisis" is a hoax & scam imposed on the masses by elites & globalists....
Is it due to the materials used? Seems implausible to me, the blades aren't made of some toxic alloy, are they?
Or is it simply so that the wind mill companies aren't required by law to pay out of their own pocket to recycle their own waste and so does the cheapest thing: bury the waste?
I still think it's amusing that they imagine they'll be able to build the necessary infrastructure in time. Remind me how that California railway system is going? The managerial state has created the regulatory infrastructure that prevents the managerial state from being able to achieve its stated goals and it is all very funny to me.
Chris, Move them, too. Many are doing just that...
(I know it's not quite so simple...but I have seen enough grandmas/grandpas moved to Florida from California so that "everyone" could go that I know it is a "thing".
Average household electric bills will be $1 million a month, but no problem, they'll just print the money and create another federal agency to handle everyone's power bills. Problem solved. And best of all, that federal agency will ensure that electricity is equitably distributed based on melanin levels and gender fluidity. Reminds me of an 80s song: "The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades!"
I was in California last year. I wanted to get public transport so that my friends 90 mins out from LAX wouldn't have to pick me up. They laughed when I suggested this. There was literally no way to avoid driving. What a fucking stupid place, was all I could think.
There absolutely is public transportation between LAX and places that are 90 minutes away. You could have taken ten to twelve buses there in no more than three days.
Hahaha! Glad I live in France, where I can ride a very comfortable train from here in the far north 1,000 miles down to the Mediterranean in 8 hours, for less than 100 bucks!
California thinks it's not going to have any new gas water heaters after 2030, and that all cars will be electric after 2035, so some of these folks will still be around the watch reality.
They'll kick that can when they come to it. 2030 will become 2035, 2035 will become 2050........because when it comes down to it, the threat of action is nearly as effective as the action itself.
Wind turbines kill scores of millions of birds and bats every year worldwide, but also trillions of insects (in 2021 Germany alone, maintenance people scraped 1200 tons of insects off their turbine blades). As you point out, the engineering of these products, wind and solar, precludes them ever being anything but boutique energy suppliers. However, as you know, this isn't about energy or the environment. As the late, great Vaclav Havel, who grew up under communism and later president of the Czech Republic observed, the environmentalists are the new communists. And you are correct, increasingly, the socialist ideas of the leftist elites, who don't have to live with their decisions, run headlong into the leftist working/middle class who do. It's like putting the Stalinists vs the Trotskyites. How did that work out for the Soviet Union?
That’s why we like DESANTIS there are no camps just because you dont like him no reason for name calling just because you are a pedofile China biden lover
As a native Californian, and San Franciscan, who appreciates the geographic blessing of this place, I'm finding it ever more intolerable to be here. Where can you go to get the same natural quality of life (e.g., moderate climate, beautiful terrain, abundant food) without the fascist progressive policies?
To hell with the crazy Californians, again. They've had Nevada water, now they want our land to pollute for solar, taking miles of high desert and destroying the life there. The BLM, may it rot, has always had it out for ranchers. That land they say they've identified is ranchland, not to mention valuable minerals as well. Ranchers do good for our people and they do good for our land, but they are always under attack from this paperwork-based insanity.
What they won't tell you is; when the size of the solar farm reaches 20% of the total area of the land available for usage, it triggers a feedback loop of HEAT.
Heat is waste. What happens and where does it go?:
The atmosphere.
What happens when heat is released in the atmosphere?
Polar regions warm more than the tropics, increasing sea ice loss in the Arctic, accelerating warming, as melting sea ice exposes dark water which absorbs much more solar energy.
Couldn't strategically placed solar power towers work off of the excess heat? The kind that uses molten sodium or molten salt as a fluid to power turbines to generate electricity?
I’ve flown over those massive mirror farms in the desert. Really horrific compared to the footprint of a small nuclear plant. Plus the nuke plants look like boobs. Lol
On point again, Chris. Liberals don’t actually care about the details. We’re all supposed to live in the pod and eat the bugs anyways. Pod is just a fancy new word for gulag. But the Sam Harris’s of the world won’t find that out until their in one and they’ll still be cursing Trump.
There is a way out of this dilemma: fewer people means less demand for electricity. And funny enough, a lot of the same folks who crusade for "green energy" and environmental protections, as well as so many other leftist wet dreams like mass vaccination and sterlization via "gender reassignment," also have made public declarations about there being too many people. Just reading the tea leaves, I think their socialist utopia involves some steep reductions in the number of those they see as "useless people" (to borrow a term from comrade Yuval Harari).
What's interesting to me about the supposed 'green energy' transition is how neither progressive enthusiasts nor conservative sceptics ever discuss the systems/complexity side of the issue. There's some interesting work on the fringes of this oversimplified debate suggesting there isn't the energy (and consequently, eventually the money) to even achieve it. This inconvenient work is completely overlooked.
There's not enough maerialfor batteries, period. Nor is there production capacity for them.
To replace Sweden's petrol/diesel vehicles, the total global production of raw materials and batteries for EVs would have to work around the clock, 24/7 for two years non-stop.
And then all those batteries would need to be replaced after 10-15 years at the most.
Meanwhile, my uncle (87 years old) still drives his Volvo 240 Station Wagon.
And it's not unusual to see cars from the 140-series, the Volvo Amazon or even the PV-series here in Sweden. The oldest models are approaching a century.
I have no expertise in the battery materials field, but the intuition I have is that you're probably correct. There are a lot of incentives in play here. A lot of money to be made from Net Zero.
Also, you stir a funny memory of a Volvo I once saw. Some of the body panels were held in place with gaffer tape. Hamish, the owner, had rolled his Volvo off the road so often it was falling apart. But it remained mechanically sound. This was on Scotland's Knoydart peninsula. Thanks for sparking that memory.
I'm going by a report written by senior professors and tutors at Chalmersin Göteborg, Sweden. It was published last year and was a simple off-the-cuff thing, yet ut made it perfectly clear that swapping out petrol/disel engine vehicles on anything but a very limited scale is unfeasible, or even impossible.
The only way to make it feasible would be to make private owning of cars impossible, except for the state, the corporations and the richest 15%.
A swedish author wrote about this (15-minute cities, enforced happiness, death of creativity and scientific reason et c) in 1967, in a novel called "Elektra. Kvinna år 2070". Sadly, it isn't available in english.
In it, a man wakes up in 2070, having been cryogenically frozen in 1970. 99.9% of the world's population lives in cities. The only people living outside are those posted to power plants (in the novel our protagonist's cryo-pod is stored at a hydro-electric dam).
In short, the world is such a soulless place he doesn't resist going back into cryo for another century.
Because the wrold state has managed to murder love, except love of the self and of the state which has been made the same thing.
You see this driving west from El Centro on Highway 8 as you ascend the pacific range. Windmill blight. Parenthetically, SDGE massively jacked up utility rates in the last couple of months. And while they encourage you to go solar, the utilities in Cali are taking away the financial incentive of selling power back to the grid, along with some other carve outs. They want you to go solar, but not too solar because that puts the utility companies into a less profitable mode. And remember lithium car batteries are an unmitigated environmental and human disaster (child labor in the Congo) and solar panels are forever. There’s no such thing as sustainable clean energy. It’s a big fat lie.
only in CA can you build a 1/3rd the original distance. for 20 billion over the original budget for the whole thing, and everyone collectively forgets about it - or calls it a major accomplishment!
Good news is it "drops" you right off in Fresneck so you can protest at the Arm Pit capital of CA.
Nobody cares about OPM, least of all megalomaniacal politicians. They face zero consequences for monstrous f- ups. Barney Frank for example pushes the stupid Dodd- Frank legislation that’s supposed to reduce risk in the banking system. How’s that working out? Then he gets out of office, gets in the board of Signature Bank, makes a lot of money, and while overseeing the bank they do a bunch of risky stuff, go belly up and he complains about... wait for it... Dodd-Frank. What a colossal ho.
Say what you like about frontier justice, but you had to think good and hard before you stole a man’s horse or rustled his cattle. You might find yourself on the wrong side of the dirt in a hurry. That’s a real disincentuve to f-ing around and finding out.
See also, for examples from energy industry and Mojave Desert local perspectives:
https://www.eenews.net/articles/nev-monument-will-shield-sacred-tribal-land-from-renewables/
https://honorspiritmountain.org/press-release-new-threat-of-development/
Let me be honest. I don't just oppose moving to solar and wind power because it's inconsistent and not practical. I also just think these wind turbines and solar panels are so ugly covering the land. Further, the wind turbines kill thousands of birds every year.
And what is to happen to acres and acres of solar panels when they are worn out and no longer work?
They....magically disintegrate? No, wait, let me ponder this.
We will dispose of the non-functional solar panels using precisely the same approach we currently use for most of our "recyclables". We will collect them, maximizing inconvenience to the public, at great expense, and will transport them to ports. Where they will be loaded onto ships and delivered to third world countries. Where some will undergo a token "recycling", but most will be burned or dumped into the nearest river, or the nearest ocean.
You and I obviously don’t believe in unicorns
But, but, but...
Wasn't most of this in an old Simpsons episode? These days it seems like everything is. At least then it was funny.
“Operator! Give me the number for 911!”
We have a climate catastrophe!!!; said the people...lol
the article i ref below pretty much says that. its a 10x cost and a 1/10 quanity of recovery at best. So few will do it. It wasnt made to be. Cars, troublesome to recycle, are much easier. You basically get a lot of dirty ground glass.
https://grist.org/energy/solar-panels-are-starting-to-die-what-will-we-do-with-the-megatons-of-toxic-trash/
I thought the go to answer was “ we’ll figure out a way to recycle them...trust us.”
Roofs in the shadows of Mad Max world?
Homeless shelters, a frame style. Kidding, I have no idea, they are probably toxic and I know they are fairly heavy/dense. The old solar panels are probably like forever chemicals, forever.
I bet that the people who live near wind farms love to look at the flashing red lights all night long.
& they haven’t found way to recycle/dispose of massive turbines
& EV’s, Teslas are poster cars for child slave labor in mining, as well as destroying the environment in areas where mining for the voluminous quantities of rare earth minerals for batteries.
Partly false. Video exists of the BURIAL of used, defunct turbine blades that can't be recycled. Buried using LARGE, DIESEL-POWERED BULLDOZERS.... But, instead, they should be more creative, and make some type of architectural sculpture or structure out of them.... But yeah, the "climate crisis" is a hoax & scam imposed on the masses by elites & globalists....
I'm curious as to why they cannot be recycled.
Is it due to the materials used? Seems implausible to me, the blades aren't made of some toxic alloy, are they?
Or is it simply so that the wind mill companies aren't required by law to pay out of their own pocket to recycle their own waste and so does the cheapest thing: bury the waste?
I still think it's amusing that they imagine they'll be able to build the necessary infrastructure in time. Remind me how that California railway system is going? The managerial state has created the regulatory infrastructure that prevents the managerial state from being able to achieve its stated goals and it is all very funny to me.
As a Californian, it's funny to me except for when I pay my utility bills.
Why are you still there when anyone sane has left/is leaving? You strike me as sane...
Family.
Chris, Move them, too. Many are doing just that...
(I know it's not quite so simple...but I have seen enough grandmas/grandpas moved to Florida from California so that "everyone" could go that I know it is a "thing".
Kinda like a "Beverly Hillbillies" in reverse...or some such.
Average household electric bills will be $1 million a month, but no problem, they'll just print the money and create another federal agency to handle everyone's power bills. Problem solved. And best of all, that federal agency will ensure that electricity is equitably distributed based on melanin levels and gender fluidity. Reminds me of an 80s song: "The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades!"
So it will only take San Francisco 5 months to recoup the reparations payments from their recipients? Sweet.
We need more thinkers like you! Maybe not "reduce', but certainly "re-use & recycle". Great idea! This is how the green economy is gonna work!
However, they are normalizing rolling blackouts nationwide. We'll be like South Africa before we know it:
South Africa’s Power Grid is Failing
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/africa/south-africas-power-grid-is-failing/
I was in California last year. I wanted to get public transport so that my friends 90 mins out from LAX wouldn't have to pick me up. They laughed when I suggested this. There was literally no way to avoid driving. What a fucking stupid place, was all I could think.
There absolutely is public transportation between LAX and places that are 90 minutes away. You could have taken ten to twelve buses there in no more than three days.
Well there's this at least. It'll "drop" you off right at the doorsteps of FresNeck.
Nothing like paying $20 billion more for a third of the distance it was originally designed for:
https://jalopnik.com/californias-cant-afford-128-billion-la-bullet-train-1850205169
Imagine getting to Fresno in a hurry.
Glad you're back. Lmao
Hahaha! Glad I live in France, where I can ride a very comfortable train from here in the far north 1,000 miles down to the Mediterranean in 8 hours, for less than 100 bucks!
Thank god.
They can’t keep the electricity on at the current demand, so they legislate doubling demand.
Coward politicians set far-off goals, knowing they'll be long gone by the time the effects are being felt.
California thinks it's not going to have any new gas water heaters after 2030, and that all cars will be electric after 2035, so some of these folks will still be around the watch reality.
They'll kick that can when they come to it. 2030 will become 2035, 2035 will become 2050........because when it comes down to it, the threat of action is nearly as effective as the action itself.
But, but they can’t. We’ll all be dead in 10 years or something like that so no one can kick the can.
Wind turbines kill scores of millions of birds and bats every year worldwide, but also trillions of insects (in 2021 Germany alone, maintenance people scraped 1200 tons of insects off their turbine blades). As you point out, the engineering of these products, wind and solar, precludes them ever being anything but boutique energy suppliers. However, as you know, this isn't about energy or the environment. As the late, great Vaclav Havel, who grew up under communism and later president of the Czech Republic observed, the environmentalists are the new communists. And you are correct, increasingly, the socialist ideas of the leftist elites, who don't have to live with their decisions, run headlong into the leftist working/middle class who do. It's like putting the Stalinists vs the Trotskyites. How did that work out for the Soviet Union?
Danny Huckabee
That’s why we like DESANTIS there are no camps just because you dont like him no reason for name calling just because you are a pedofile China biden lover
"Mom? Where does electricity come from?" "From the socket in the wall, son. Where else?" "But how does it get there?" "I don't know. Wires, I guess?"
“Mom,” being Energy Secretary Granholm.
Ya gotta love modern "education".
As a native Californian, and San Franciscan, who appreciates the geographic blessing of this place, I'm finding it ever more intolerable to be here. Where can you go to get the same natural quality of life (e.g., moderate climate, beautiful terrain, abundant food) without the fascist progressive policies?
It's my favorite place in the world, and I can't stand it. Right there with you.
I couldn't take it, as a San Diegan native, and left in 2008.
I miss it, but will never go back to live.
It makes me sad to see up close and from far away the total destruction of the most beautiful briar patch on earth.
Been in Florida since 20' and I can say the culture makes up for the craziness of California.
Me too! I’m 3rd generation San Franciscan. I refuse to ever go there, now (the last few years). The Left has decimated SF.
To hell with the crazy Californians, again. They've had Nevada water, now they want our land to pollute for solar, taking miles of high desert and destroying the life there. The BLM, may it rot, has always had it out for ranchers. That land they say they've identified is ranchland, not to mention valuable minerals as well. Ranchers do good for our people and they do good for our land, but they are always under attack from this paperwork-based insanity.
Remember "cattle-free by '93," the sign Cliven Bundy said the BLM had hanging in a regional office in Nevada?
What they won't tell you is; when the size of the solar farm reaches 20% of the total area of the land available for usage, it triggers a feedback loop of HEAT.
Heat is waste. What happens and where does it go?:
The atmosphere.
What happens when heat is released in the atmosphere?
Polar regions warm more than the tropics, increasing sea ice loss in the Arctic, accelerating warming, as melting sea ice exposes dark water which absorbs much more solar energy.
Couldn't strategically placed solar power towers work off of the excess heat? The kind that uses molten sodium or molten salt as a fluid to power turbines to generate electricity?
They're 4 times more expensive than regular solar developments
Oooh...and those $50M seaside mansions flood.
I’ve flown over those massive mirror farms in the desert. Really horrific compared to the footprint of a small nuclear plant. Plus the nuke plants look like boobs. Lol
"Heeeey, nice nuke plant."
The centerfold in NukePlantBoy is something to see.
I used to have a thing for a Soviet nuclear plant, but it ended badly.
Can't afford to get too close on that perilous first date.
3.6 Roentgen -- not great, not terrible.
Now the left hand does not even know what the left hand is doing. Comes from having badly decayed hippocampi, perhaps.
On point again, Chris. Liberals don’t actually care about the details. We’re all supposed to live in the pod and eat the bugs anyways. Pod is just a fancy new word for gulag. But the Sam Harris’s of the world won’t find that out until their in one and they’ll still be cursing Trump.
There is a way out of this dilemma: fewer people means less demand for electricity. And funny enough, a lot of the same folks who crusade for "green energy" and environmental protections, as well as so many other leftist wet dreams like mass vaccination and sterlization via "gender reassignment," also have made public declarations about there being too many people. Just reading the tea leaves, I think their socialist utopia involves some steep reductions in the number of those they see as "useless people" (to borrow a term from comrade Yuval Harari).
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: you are free to ignore reality all you like. Reality never ignores you.
What's interesting to me about the supposed 'green energy' transition is how neither progressive enthusiasts nor conservative sceptics ever discuss the systems/complexity side of the issue. There's some interesting work on the fringes of this oversimplified debate suggesting there isn't the energy (and consequently, eventually the money) to even achieve it. This inconvenient work is completely overlooked.
There's not enough maerialfor batteries, period. Nor is there production capacity for them.
To replace Sweden's petrol/diesel vehicles, the total global production of raw materials and batteries for EVs would have to work around the clock, 24/7 for two years non-stop.
And then all those batteries would need to be replaced after 10-15 years at the most.
Meanwhile, my uncle (87 years old) still drives his Volvo 240 Station Wagon.
And it's not unusual to see cars from the 140-series, the Volvo Amazon or even the PV-series here in Sweden. The oldest models are approaching a century.
I have no expertise in the battery materials field, but the intuition I have is that you're probably correct. There are a lot of incentives in play here. A lot of money to be made from Net Zero.
Also, you stir a funny memory of a Volvo I once saw. Some of the body panels were held in place with gaffer tape. Hamish, the owner, had rolled his Volvo off the road so often it was falling apart. But it remained mechanically sound. This was on Scotland's Knoydart peninsula. Thanks for sparking that memory.
I'm going by a report written by senior professors and tutors at Chalmersin Göteborg, Sweden. It was published last year and was a simple off-the-cuff thing, yet ut made it perfectly clear that swapping out petrol/disel engine vehicles on anything but a very limited scale is unfeasible, or even impossible.
The only way to make it feasible would be to make private owning of cars impossible, except for the state, the corporations and the richest 15%.
I think you just said the quiet part out loud.
And when we’re herded into those 15minute cities that we’ll need to get permits to leave, we won’t “need” to have a personal vehicle.
Nailed it.
A swedish author wrote about this (15-minute cities, enforced happiness, death of creativity and scientific reason et c) in 1967, in a novel called "Elektra. Kvinna år 2070". Sadly, it isn't available in english.
In it, a man wakes up in 2070, having been cryogenically frozen in 1970. 99.9% of the world's population lives in cities. The only people living outside are those posted to power plants (in the novel our protagonist's cryo-pod is stored at a hydro-electric dam).
In short, the world is such a soulless place he doesn't resist going back into cryo for another century.
Because the wrold state has managed to murder love, except love of the self and of the state which has been made the same thing.
Thanks, I'll find this. If I can't I'll come back for help.
I might tolerate extensive restrictions to prevent climate disruption if
a) their efficacy were sufficiently proven
b) everyone was in it together
I'm sceptical of a and feel certain that b will never be true.
Had a look around and could only find two summary articles now.
Both are in swedish,and one is partially paywalled to boot.
Links, in case you want to bother with running the through a translator:
[https://klimatupplysningen.se/__trashed/]
(Klimatupplysningen means Climate information)
[https://www.epochtimes.se/Analys-Kritiska-material-racker-inte-till-for-alla-elbilar]
Hope this helps.
Thanks! I'm professionally connected (as a communicator) to this issue, so it's especially interesting.
You see this driving west from El Centro on Highway 8 as you ascend the pacific range. Windmill blight. Parenthetically, SDGE massively jacked up utility rates in the last couple of months. And while they encourage you to go solar, the utilities in Cali are taking away the financial incentive of selling power back to the grid, along with some other carve outs. They want you to go solar, but not too solar because that puts the utility companies into a less profitable mode. And remember lithium car batteries are an unmitigated environmental and human disaster (child labor in the Congo) and solar panels are forever. There’s no such thing as sustainable clean energy. It’s a big fat lie.
https://jalopnik.com/californias-cant-afford-128-billion-la-bullet-train-1850205169
A bargain at twice the price, no doubt.
only in CA can you build a 1/3rd the original distance. for 20 billion over the original budget for the whole thing, and everyone collectively forgets about it - or calls it a major accomplishment!
Good news is it "drops" you right off in Fresneck so you can protest at the Arm Pit capital of CA.
Nobody cares about OPM, least of all megalomaniacal politicians. They face zero consequences for monstrous f- ups. Barney Frank for example pushes the stupid Dodd- Frank legislation that’s supposed to reduce risk in the banking system. How’s that working out? Then he gets out of office, gets in the board of Signature Bank, makes a lot of money, and while overseeing the bank they do a bunch of risky stuff, go belly up and he complains about... wait for it... Dodd-Frank. What a colossal ho.
Say what you like about frontier justice, but you had to think good and hard before you stole a man’s horse or rustled his cattle. You might find yourself on the wrong side of the dirt in a hurry. That’s a real disincentuve to f-ing around and finding out.
Two words:
Urban Plantations