Another thing I've been thinking about as a comparison, as the long-ago recipient of an NCOER warning that the young Sgt. Bray was deficient in the critical military value of tactfulness:
Imagine a subordinate had treated Mark Milley the way Mark Milley treated Donald Trump while he was still in uniform. A colonel on the joint staff, say for example, or the J-3, giving public interviews to say that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was a dangerous fool who had to be restrained by his subordinates. They even made phone calls to foreign adversaries to tell them how unstable Milley was, and to promise that they wouldn't attack without calling to give a warning first. "If Milley gives you an order, run it by me before you obey it."
Exactly. Plus: “So Trump was a vicious and unstable wannabe dictator who…listened to military advice and never gave an illegal order. It’s chilling, isn’t it?”
So, what evidence did Milley have to support any of his nonsense? None. It was just insubordination, straight up. And he should have been fired, dishonorably, for it.
"What would other military officers think of it?" I, for one, would think it constitutes treasonous conduct worthy of a court marshal under the UCMJ. (but then...I'm not a Democrat)
Once again, you and VDH nail it! You can't have every subordinate second guessing his senior and circumventing or countermanding orders. Wonder how Sun Tsu would have handled a Milley in his ranks? Hmmm...
Well, Trump’s first overseas trip was to Saudi Arabia, where he did the sword dance. Perhaps he still had his sword available – as I recall, it was appropriately shaped and would have done a great job in sending Milley’s head skittering across the North Lawn.
Maybe I am insufficiently well-read but, I have never encountered the notion that Sun Tzu was expert of the art of war, but to apply his advice in the civilian arena would be to court disaster. His beliefs were unilateral and totalitarian.
I don’t think his writing has much application within a marriage, but as much of his writing is about dealing with current or potential conflict, it could have application in the workplace. For example, the advice that the best fight is the one your enemy is convinced he cannot not win. It is possible to conduct oneself professionally and also convey that you won’t tolerate aggression.
I think the progressives thought they had already won. When Brexit then Trump shattered their world view, they truly lost their minds. Ever since they have been at war fighting to get back they believe they had already won. They think it was stolen from them.
I’m hoping the loss of control continues to make them lose their minds. I don’t know if we’re all the way to normies yet, but they’ve certainly ripped the blinders off my eyes.
HEY now, come on! That poor man just thought he had to pull the fire alarm to make a door open. I bet seventy percent of the population doesn't know how doors work. Totally understandable.
At the risk of pushing to the point of absurdity, I spent a week in Nigeria, and can say with certainty that they have operational doors there. So that’s 13% of the population…
The real problem is, of course, the misrepresentation.
A relative of mine recently said "Trump is the most lying president in history" Fine, please name a lie. (He couldn't) I said, let me help, and told him a dozen provable Biden lies.
Then he said the same about corruption. I did the same.
"The Adults are in charge!" I listed the failures.
"I am still voting for Biden, he is better than Trump. I just like him more"
He could not make an argument at all. (Oddly he was able to do this in things outside of politics: he made a pretty convincing argument that even if Lee had not engaged at Gettysburg, and instead ran to sack Washington, the Confederates still would have lost)
The MSM Chants the narrative, the obeyers chant it back. Milley also conquered Mars, making it the first planetary territory of the US! Didn't you know that? Equal odds that that will first show up as a headline to the Babylon Bee or New York Times.
A few "Skunks" are not going to solve that problem. I have come to the horrible conclusion that alcoholics and normies have to hit rock bottom (and take all around them with them) before, maybe, they change.
I think (and pray) we're on the cusp of witnessing that bottom. You can see fear in the eyes of many of these folks now, realizing they're trapped in cognitively dissonant ideologies.
Something I tell them is that the biggest asset they have is their conservative friends. they can ask for the truth anytime, as well as the best way forward (even if it not a happy reality). Even if they don't want to go this route it is still helpful to hear truth.
I remember hearing an expression once about the Law: a good lawyer knows the Law, but a great lawyer knows the judge. There's a similar principle at play here: a "good" leader does what's right, but a "great" leader helps the right team. All the platitudes about "our democracy" and the "liberal rules-based order" and so on are merely a pretext for rationalizing whatever the elites already want for selfish reasons. This is similar to the legal rhetoric dressing up a judge's ruling in favor of the party to which he is clearly biased for non-legal reasons. Mark Milley is good, because he is helping the correct side of the culture war.
Church lady voice: That Mr. Obama, now he was a real role model, so thick skinned and fair and stable. He'd never do something so childish and unbalanced as fire a general over a mild (and accurate) critique of his VP. That's just fascist, that's what it is. It sounds like something that *spits* Donald Trump would do.
Why does it feel like, with Trump's election in 2015, a huge number of people in positions of power decided that was their cue to start behaving like hysterical children? Because I just don't see that he was much different than any of the other idiots they put in charge.
I think it was because he didn't show them what they felt was the proper deference and their massive egos exploded. The people in power today have one singular trait and no discernable competence. That trait is pride. I've often noted that the more someone relies on pride the less they rely on their own competence. Or that these two are inversely correlated. Truly brilliant and competent men don't get offended that easily. They may demand respect but that's not what these guys are doing. They're whining in public for respect. Kind of the opposite really.
D.C. has become a reincarnation of the French court under the last Bourbon kings – Lace cuffs with handkerchiefs, snuff and tittering Georgetown conversations. All that’s missing are powdered wigs. Accepting the Bushes was hard enough, but Trump’s directness and occasional crudity were simply beyond tolerance. Worse, they were aware that HE was aware of their existence & disdain, and that he did not care. THAT was beyond endurance and so they set out to politically murder him b4 he got to the bottom of the escalator. “Jethro Bodine” of the Beverley Hillbillies would have been better received.
Trump at least said that he wanted to reverse course on many policies. Whether he lied, or was prevented from doing so, or was just inept at governing, it never happened. Nevertheless, the deep state considered him to be an existential threat.
We did that when we agreed to meet at Panmunjom the 1st time. Last time “recognition” of an adversary prevented negotiations was re: Vietnam. We spent from March 1968 to Jan 1969 disagreeing on what city to meet in, who should attend, and finally the shape of the table (10 weeks just on that). I was 15 at the time and it struck me as childish.
He did get us out of Afghanistan. I don't think Trump lied. His instinct and experience is as a dealmaker. What he didn't get is that war is the business of the US empire and it doesn't make deals - it imposes them.
We need more reporters and pundits who used to be in the military. One of the reasons Defense isn't getting punished for Afghanistan is that media people weren't there and know hardly anyone who was there, in 2021 or earlier.
The average citizen doesn’t understand the military ethos, but may understand this adage:
“People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” - Origin unknown
That understanding is the chasm between the citizenry & the press.
When my eldest sister was killed by a missile in Baghdad in Jan 2005, and after informing family & her friends, that evening I wrote a tear-blotted letter to Bush 43 begging him to fight harder, hold the flag higher, etc. I sent a PDF of that letter to one of her coworkers at the Pentagon, and I understand that letter flashed through Army ranks at a time of suffering morale. On the other hand, I taped a copy to my office door and the vast majority of my coworkers could not comprehend my reaction. One of my workplace friends explained: “John is a soldier and will be to the day he dies.”
Apart from the insubordination, think about the staggering lack of professional judgement so many of the top commanders have shown lately. The Fat Leonard Scandal involved bribing admirals, men who earn in the high six figures, with a few thousand dollars-worth of goodies and some prostitutes. Why was McChrystal talking to Rolling Stone in the first place? Did no one on his staff know who they were; did they imagine they were on his side? Why was Petreus, a four-star and CIA director, unable to keep his mistresses from cyberstalking each other while he fed one of them classified information for the biography she was writing of him while she was a serving Lt. Col? Why did Hertling go on CNN to warn the public about the dangers of the “full-semiautomatic” AR-15? I half expect Milley to appear on the Ali G show next.
Wow, brilliant work! Your mind is working even while you sleep. I am so happy I found you on Substack with your original piece on this subject. I cannot wait to read what you produce.
Upon reading it or at least skimming it again, and being a decade and a half removed from my time in the sandbox, it reminds me what a shit sandwich it was. And also, we fired who, for what, and when, and we end up with guys like Milley.
I imagine he is preening now hoping to become the obama general officer figurehead at MSNBC bookending the laughable Malcolm Nance as military experts, and legends in their own minds.
There was a time when American presidents were expected to know a thing or two about military matters and history. More than a few of them actually came from the military or at least had military service behind them. Now we accept dark horse community organizers as president who don't need to know anything about anything, just take orders from the Deep State and read the teleprompter smoothly. Now even reading the teleprompter smoothly has been dropped from the requirements.
Another thing I've been thinking about as a comparison, as the long-ago recipient of an NCOER warning that the young Sgt. Bray was deficient in the critical military value of tactfulness:
Imagine a subordinate had treated Mark Milley the way Mark Milley treated Donald Trump while he was still in uniform. A colonel on the joint staff, say for example, or the J-3, giving public interviews to say that the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was a dangerous fool who had to be restrained by his subordinates. They even made phone calls to foreign adversaries to tell them how unstable Milley was, and to promise that they wouldn't attack without calling to give a warning first. "If Milley gives you an order, run it by me before you obey it."
https://www.jcs.mil/Directorates/J3-Operations/
What would Milley think of that? What would the news media think of it? What would other military officers think of it?
Exactly. Plus: “So Trump was a vicious and unstable wannabe dictator who…listened to military advice and never gave an illegal order. It’s chilling, isn’t it?”
So, what evidence did Milley have to support any of his nonsense? None. It was just insubordination, straight up. And he should have been fired, dishonorably, for it.
🙌 Most of the crap in charge needed fired many years ago.
I'll second that.
You continue to impress me, Chris.
Very very good!
"What would other military officers think of it?" I, for one, would think it constitutes treasonous conduct worthy of a court marshal under the UCMJ. (but then...I'm not a Democrat)
Maaaaaaybe.
If he had successfully fought the Secret Service for the steering wheel, is the way I remember that story going.
You're thinking of Robert L Peters.
Via an alert reader, thoughts on Milley "barking accusations at the moon":
https://twitter.com/VDHanson/status/1707885692918112577
Chris, you are in excellent company if you are channeling the thoughts of VDH.
Once again, you and VDH nail it! You can't have every subordinate second guessing his senior and circumventing or countermanding orders. Wonder how Sun Tsu would have handled a Milley in his ranks? Hmmm...
If the stories about Sun Tzu are true, he would have beheaded Milly on the spot as a lesson to his other generals.
Well, Trump’s first overseas trip was to Saudi Arabia, where he did the sword dance. Perhaps he still had his sword available – as I recall, it was appropriately shaped and would have done a great job in sending Milley’s head skittering across the North Lawn.
Yes, he pretty much said as much in The Art Of War. Ah, where is Sun Tzu when you really need him?
Not sure what Sun Tzu would have thought, but here’s a relevant quote:
“To be feared is much safer then to be loved.” – Niccolo Machiavelli
Maybe I am insufficiently well-read but, I have never encountered the notion that Sun Tzu was expert of the art of war, but to apply his advice in the civilian arena would be to court disaster. His beliefs were unilateral and totalitarian.
I don’t think his writing has much application within a marriage, but as much of his writing is about dealing with current or potential conflict, it could have application in the workplace. For example, the advice that the best fight is the one your enemy is convinced he cannot not win. It is possible to conduct oneself professionally and also convey that you won’t tolerate aggression.
I think the progressives thought they had already won. When Brexit then Trump shattered their world view, they truly lost their minds. Ever since they have been at war fighting to get back they believe they had already won. They think it was stolen from them.
I’m hoping the loss of control continues to make them lose their minds. I don’t know if we’re all the way to normies yet, but they’ve certainly ripped the blinders off my eyes.
Can you imagine the DOJ’s reaction if a Jan 6 protester had said into a bullhorn “I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the [Congress]?"
DOJ has acted like every one of the protesters was carrying a satchel bomb and a tommy gun.
The treatment of alarm-puller Jamaal Bowman will tell the tale. Exact same situation. One J6er got 10 yrs for breaking a window.
HEY now, come on! That poor man just thought he had to pull the fire alarm to make a door open. I bet seventy percent of the population doesn't know how doors work. Totally understandable.
At the risk of pushing to the point of absurdity, I spent a week in Nigeria, and can say with certainty that they have operational doors there. So that’s 13% of the population…
Pretty sure we already know the tale; much as I would like to be surprised.
The real problem is, of course, the misrepresentation.
A relative of mine recently said "Trump is the most lying president in history" Fine, please name a lie. (He couldn't) I said, let me help, and told him a dozen provable Biden lies.
Then he said the same about corruption. I did the same.
"The Adults are in charge!" I listed the failures.
"I am still voting for Biden, he is better than Trump. I just like him more"
He could not make an argument at all. (Oddly he was able to do this in things outside of politics: he made a pretty convincing argument that even if Lee had not engaged at Gettysburg, and instead ran to sack Washington, the Confederates still would have lost)
The MSM Chants the narrative, the obeyers chant it back. Milley also conquered Mars, making it the first planetary territory of the US! Didn't you know that? Equal odds that that will first show up as a headline to the Babylon Bee or New York Times.
A few "Skunks" are not going to solve that problem. I have come to the horrible conclusion that alcoholics and normies have to hit rock bottom (and take all around them with them) before, maybe, they change.
I think (and pray) we're on the cusp of witnessing that bottom. You can see fear in the eyes of many of these folks now, realizing they're trapped in cognitively dissonant ideologies.
Something I tell them is that the biggest asset they have is their conservative friends. they can ask for the truth anytime, as well as the best way forward (even if it not a happy reality). Even if they don't want to go this route it is still helpful to hear truth.
I would disown that relative
I remember hearing an expression once about the Law: a good lawyer knows the Law, but a great lawyer knows the judge. There's a similar principle at play here: a "good" leader does what's right, but a "great" leader helps the right team. All the platitudes about "our democracy" and the "liberal rules-based order" and so on are merely a pretext for rationalizing whatever the elites already want for selfish reasons. This is similar to the legal rhetoric dressing up a judge's ruling in favor of the party to which he is clearly biased for non-legal reasons. Mark Milley is good, because he is helping the correct side of the culture war.
You just cameoed western "democracy".
Church lady voice: That Mr. Obama, now he was a real role model, so thick skinned and fair and stable. He'd never do something so childish and unbalanced as fire a general over a mild (and accurate) critique of his VP. That's just fascist, that's what it is. It sounds like something that *spits* Donald Trump would do.
All mouth, no brain. Lot's of them around LOL
Chris, don’t you know that... (checks rulebook...) it’s OK when Democrats do it.
Milley needs to be court martialled. Not fired.
Along with many, many more.
Amen Brother Amen. Miley is slime as was Vindman.
Why does it feel like, with Trump's election in 2015, a huge number of people in positions of power decided that was their cue to start behaving like hysterical children? Because I just don't see that he was much different than any of the other idiots they put in charge.
I think it was because he didn't show them what they felt was the proper deference and their massive egos exploded. The people in power today have one singular trait and no discernable competence. That trait is pride. I've often noted that the more someone relies on pride the less they rely on their own competence. Or that these two are inversely correlated. Truly brilliant and competent men don't get offended that easily. They may demand respect but that's not what these guys are doing. They're whining in public for respect. Kind of the opposite really.
D.C. has become a reincarnation of the French court under the last Bourbon kings – Lace cuffs with handkerchiefs, snuff and tittering Georgetown conversations. All that’s missing are powdered wigs. Accepting the Bushes was hard enough, but Trump’s directness and occasional crudity were simply beyond tolerance. Worse, they were aware that HE was aware of their existence & disdain, and that he did not care. THAT was beyond endurance and so they set out to politically murder him b4 he got to the bottom of the escalator. “Jethro Bodine” of the Beverley Hillbillies would have been better received.
He was anti war. They hate that.
Trump at least said that he wanted to reverse course on many policies. Whether he lied, or was prevented from doing so, or was just inept at governing, it never happened. Nevertheless, the deep state considered him to be an existential threat.
The last straw was recognising the legimacy of North Korea. Blasphemy.
We did that when we agreed to meet at Panmunjom the 1st time. Last time “recognition” of an adversary prevented negotiations was re: Vietnam. We spent from March 1968 to Jan 1969 disagreeing on what city to meet in, who should attend, and finally the shape of the table (10 weeks just on that). I was 15 at the time and it struck me as childish.
He did get us out of Afghanistan. I don't think Trump lied. His instinct and experience is as a dealmaker. What he didn't get is that war is the business of the US empire and it doesn't make deals - it imposes them.
We need more reporters and pundits who used to be in the military. One of the reasons Defense isn't getting punished for Afghanistan is that media people weren't there and know hardly anyone who was there, in 2021 or earlier.
I wrote this 21 years ago:
https://reason.com/2002/02/01/the-media-and-gi-joe-2/
Wow. Damn dude. Got anymore of them links like that? Fantastic stuff.
And the average citizen probably doesn’t get it either.
The average citizen doesn’t understand the military ethos, but may understand this adage:
“People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” - Origin unknown
That understanding is the chasm between the citizenry & the press.
When my eldest sister was killed by a missile in Baghdad in Jan 2005, and after informing family & her friends, that evening I wrote a tear-blotted letter to Bush 43 begging him to fight harder, hold the flag higher, etc. I sent a PDF of that letter to one of her coworkers at the Pentagon, and I understand that letter flashed through Army ranks at a time of suffering morale. On the other hand, I taped a copy to my office door and the vast majority of my coworkers could not comprehend my reaction. One of my workplace friends explained: “John is a soldier and will be to the day he dies.”
A blindness that aflicts all Americans.
Here’s a touching video from a civilian reporter who finally “got it” about the military:
https://youtu.be/FXz0ZTwl_iI?si=3eSywJLZuqVF26OU
Apart from the insubordination, think about the staggering lack of professional judgement so many of the top commanders have shown lately. The Fat Leonard Scandal involved bribing admirals, men who earn in the high six figures, with a few thousand dollars-worth of goodies and some prostitutes. Why was McChrystal talking to Rolling Stone in the first place? Did no one on his staff know who they were; did they imagine they were on his side? Why was Petreus, a four-star and CIA director, unable to keep his mistresses from cyberstalking each other while he fed one of them classified information for the biography she was writing of him while she was a serving Lt. Col? Why did Hertling go on CNN to warn the public about the dangers of the “full-semiautomatic” AR-15? I half expect Milley to appear on the Ali G show next.
US 4 star generals in Europe WWII = 7
Today: 44 idiots.
Hubris is not limited to the stupid party. Pretty much an equal opportunity malady.
Wow, brilliant work! Your mind is working even while you sleep. I am so happy I found you on Substack with your original piece on this subject. I cannot wait to read what you produce.
Wasn’t there also a little part of the story about these comments being made under the influence of a couple too many Bud Light Limes?
If I held military command, I would immediately fire anyone who so much as opened a Bud Light Lime. But I don't remember that part -- will revisit.
Upon reading it or at least skimming it again, and being a decade and a half removed from my time in the sandbox, it reminds me what a shit sandwich it was. And also, we fired who, for what, and when, and we end up with guys like Milley.
Ha ha .
Milley is a disgrace to his uniform.
I imagine he is preening now hoping to become the obama general officer figurehead at MSNBC bookending the laughable Malcolm Nance as military experts, and legends in their own minds.
There was a time when American presidents were expected to know a thing or two about military matters and history. More than a few of them actually came from the military or at least had military service behind them. Now we accept dark horse community organizers as president who don't need to know anything about anything, just take orders from the Deep State and read the teleprompter smoothly. Now even reading the teleprompter smoothly has been dropped from the requirements.