Outstanding column. I'm calling Port Gaza "Beirut 2." I commanded the SpecWar Det in Beruit in the spring of 83 and I have intimate awareness of the problems crossing the beach into an insecure politically senstivive environment. Another factor not mentioned yet: There is 1,200 miles of open sea "fetch" west of Gaza. In Beirut we had storms that put 8 foot breaking surf on the beach and wrecked the LST-provided "causeway section" pier. It will be summer by the time this fiasco is in swing, but a strong westerly cannot be ruled out in any month. This is not the Chesapeake Bay.
"if Hamas truly does care about the Palestinian people..." No. They don't. HAMAS cares about killing Jews and if Palestinians have to die, too, well so be it.
I wrote a while back about the fake debate over whether or not Hamas used al-Shifa hospital as a command center. And as I wrote then, that hospital was familiar because Amnesty International had long since identified it as the place where Hamas tortured and murdered Palestinians who opposed them politically. But they care deeply, for sure.
Israel has killed tens of thousands of innocent women and children, and this is the kind of garbage you post? Are you even jewish or are you just a useful and/or bribed idiot?
Jason, you believe Hamas’s lies and propaganda, ignore the fact that Hamas started this round with an unprovoked attack on Israeli civilians, including raping women and children & torturing and kidnapping those that they didn’t kill, having been busy with random rocket attacks since the last major battle between the two (H&I) and ignore that atrocity.
You are just a shill for Hamas, who is adept at sowing the wind and you, fool that you are expect us to condemn Israel for being the justified whirlwind?
The attack wasn't unprovoked. Israel has been abusing Gaza for decades, and has thousands of Palestinian kids they kidnap and keep in jail for years on end without charges. The 10/7 raid was an attempt to capture hostages to exchange for those people.
There were zero rapes on 10/7, there was no torture, and the vast majority of Israelis killed were IDF soldiers, on or off duty. There were kidnappings - that was the entire point of the raid - but the IDF bombed a huge number (some believe it was about half) of the Israelis killed on that day, as they have a "Hannibal Directive" to kill their own people rather than let them be taken hostage.
You can quibble with the above, but Hamas killed a few hundred Israelis, and Israel killed a few hundred of their own people (along with ~1000+ Hamas members) trying to flee back into Gaza. Since then, Israel has killed 30,000 Palestinians, blown up nearly every building, farm, water treatment plant, mosque, etc., shot tens of people with white flags (including 3 Israelis that were released by Hamas https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-hostages-killed-mistakenly-gaza-were-holding-white-flag-official-says-2023-12-16/), blockedes food and water aid but then bombs/shoots people when they do finally get aid, and on and on. They post videos laughing about these intentional civilian shootings and bombings. They lie to us all that Hamas beheaded 40 babies (total lie), burned a baby (total lie), conducted mass rape (total lie - still to this day, there is zero evidence of even one rape on 10/7 nor of any hostage, let alone mass rape), etc. And here you are, a supposedly intelligent MD, unable to see or understand any of this due to propaganda.
"Patten said her team was not able to meet with any victims of sexual violence"
"reasonable grounds to believe"
"Credible circumstantial information, which may be indicative "
"May be"... "reasonable"... "indicative"... etc. etc.
In other words, there were no rapes on video, no pictures of rape, no survivors who said they were raped, and no forensic rape kits of the dead indicating they were raped. The evidence consists of abuse and mutilation of dead bodies, and little else. I stand by my statement.
And I am guessing that you are going to claim that Hamas has not been shooting rockets into Israel from beside or beneath hospitals and schools for years and other terrorist activities. I think this conversation is done. I don’t communicate with alternate universes or realities.
The fact that a general in the United States Army can even entertain such a ridiculous thought tells me everything I need to know about how this is going to turn out.
This is what DEI thinking gets you: a total inability to correctly perceive the world. Postmodernism (of which DEI is a piece) literally preaches that "words create reality". Generals and colonels can get away with being postmodernist; sergeants can't. They know that when someone is shooting RPGs at you, words don't change reality.
So in your brain-dead worldview, Hamas should have quietly accepted apartheid Israel's slow motion absorption of first the West Bank and then the rest of Jerusalem and Gaza.
Israel does not equal Jews. Stop using religion to hide your genocide.
I'm so sorry to be a dick about it but. Israel forcibly removed the settlers from Gaza so it could be what it has been ever since, which is a free fire zone whenever Bibi wants to look tough. Now Gaza is an open air concentration camp – scratch that, a death camp. The Gazans tried non violence in 2019 with their weekly "Great march of Return" unarmed mass gatherings at the fence line and the IDF response was snipers who wore "One Shot Two Kills" T-shirts. Their water and power and food was restricted and now it's cut off completely. They are bombing Rafah's tent cities while Hamas is invulnerable as the IDF well knows. How many Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF on Oct 7 is anybody's guess but it was surely not less than hundreds out of the total; the IDF admitted that they sprayed the open air music festival from gunships. What Israel is doing is genocide. When Gaza is done they will accelerate the slow genocide in the West Bank. I will take my information from Miko Peled and Norman Finkelstein and I urge everyone to do likewise.
The epitome of historical dishonesty and inaccuracy who has done none of his own scholarship and just recites, inaccurately, what others have researched is your source, I'm sorry for you and explains the state of affairs and your highly skewed view of what's really happening. If Israel wanted to flatten Gaza, it would've been on Oct 31. Genocide means the population is reduced, perhaps worth googling actual genocides. This isn't. It's funny how no matter what evidence would be brought up to you or the completely dishonorable smug Finkelstein, you will never be able to change your perspective because your view of blood lust hungry occupiers that are Israel cannot be swayed. Perhaps you may want to Beni Morris for some historical context or John Spencer about modern warfare who will prove to you that there are no way 30k civilians are killed in Gaza, but I highly doubt you'd be able to even TRY to see another perspective that might shake your preconceived inculcated beliefs. I hope I'm wrong. I won't be replying anymore, just in case you decide to proceed with more nonsense.
Almost every building in northern gaza was leveled; they aren't letting any food in, nor medicine, and they cut off the water supply. Nearly all the hospitals are bombed, all the mosques and churches are bombed, and the death distribution of women, children, and men, matches the population percentage of Gaza (i.e. IDF has been indiscriminately killing Gazans, not targeting Hamas in any substantive way, or else % Adult Men dead would be much higher). They've killed far, far, far more civilians than Russia and Ukraine combined in their actual, 100k+ soldiers on both sides, war. They are evil incarnate and you are a bad person for defending them.
A. 30% of buildings. B. Highest numbers of food aid has been going in to Gaza, building and other aid isn't going in for obvious reasons. C. All the hospitals, mosques, churches are bombed is a blatant lie. One need not go far to find people posting to TikTok parks and mosques. D. The distribution does not match the population percentage at all, nor is it statistically viable but you chose to just parrot what's been told to you. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers E. No combatants are distinguished in those statistics. F. Not to be offensive but it will be anyway, anyone who believes Hamas lies is a moron. G. Anyone not saying ONE word about Syria for example killing 500k people but must say that Israel is evil incarnate is a anti-semite. There is no other explanation.
I won't be replying because you're beyond help and cannot be taken seriously. Nothing you said can be substantiated in any kind of way. You just NEED Israel to be this to make your worldview aligned. If you watch or listened to testimony of what happened on October 7th you'd understand what targeting civilians in the most barbaric way possible means. Also, indicative that you chose to reply so fast without bothering to even look up either Beni Morris or John Spencer. Your views cannot be moved with facts or evidence because they are set - that's the epitome of being indoctrinated. I'm willing to move my position if presented with evidence and I'm able to criticize Israel where necessary and admit mistakes, like a rational logical adult. You cannot see past the propaganda you were fed and to admit it now would be too fragile and impossible for your ego to undertake. Palestinians are humans who aren't passive things to be done unto - they have chosen certain actions or inactions and bear the consequences of it, as we all do in life.
I feel truly sorry for you because the world you live in is so veiled in lies that if someone would pee on you, you'd say it's raining. Best of luck !
I was referring to this statement: “Israel forcibly removed the settlers from Gaza so it could be what it has been ever since, which is a free fire zone whenever Bibi wants to look tough.”
So, negotiations were held; the Palestinians demanded the settlements be removed; the Oslo accords were signed; and Israel removed the settlements down to the bare earth. And yet somehow Israel was still all wrong?
(Before you answer, you should know this “logic” sounds like a fight between a recently married couple, one of whom has raging hormones from pregnancy.)
One need only look at the Christian populations in, say the West Bank or Lebanon to see the genocide in the region. Well, maybe not genocide, it’s only ethnic cleansing.
So are you saying it was justifiable for hamas to kill 1200 Jews (many of them women and children) over this perceived "slow expansion?" You believe violence is the only answer?
Hamas embeds itself among hospitals and schools. It's unfortunate any children are killed, but it's because hamas puts them in harm's way.
Israel kicked their own people out of Gaza to give it to the Palestinians. That's hardly an expansion. 20% of Israel is populated by Arabs and Palestinians. They have houses all over Israel. Why is that ok, but israel can't have some homes in the West Bank?
These 20% Arabs/ Palestinian live peacefully in Israel and even have representation in Israel's government. There are NO Jews in Gaza.
Israel has a choice in it's policies and methods, and it is choosing carpet bombing and mass starvation. No variants of the human shield argument justify genocide.
Gaza was not Israel's to give. And even after leaving, they regularly bombed it, and enforced a blockade over the land, sea, and air.
Israel can't have "some homes" in the West Bank because that is not their land.
The thousands of people including women and children who have been arrested in the West Bank are not living peacefully. The Palestinians who regularly have their homes demolished or their means of making a living eradicated are not living peacefully. The hundreds of thousands who have been driven to Gaza, Egypt, and Jordan are not living peacefully. That has been going on for decades.
Please give me an example of someone innocent arrested in the West Bank.
Israel has been regularly allowing food and supplies to be delivered to Gaza residents. If they are starving, it's because hamas is taking the supplies.
Hamas can stop this by releasing the hostages. Why won't they do that?
We all want peace in the Middle East, but surely you can understand that when hamas killed 1200 (many of them women and children) and took over 200 hostages that Israel had to respond?
“People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” - Richard Grenier (summarizing George Orwell)
I don't think you know or understand what's going on or has been going on Israel at all. It would be good if you expanded your knowledge beyond flashy group think social media posts and did some research.
I don't understand how the Israelis can stop committing genocide when they have never been committing genocide. Of course, there is the very real possibility that you know very well that the Israelis have never tried to systematically commit genocide and that their military actions are self-defense pure and simple, but you use to word "genocide" only to commit dishonest propaganda.
They are committing genocide. Gaza has been an open air prison where IDF regularly raids and kidnaps people, and uses terrorism (such as raiding random civilian houses at 3AM just to make sure the people don't get too uppity - seriously, they have admitted doing this) against the population. Israel has hundreds of children and thousands of innocent people kept prisoner from such raids. Hamas's raid on 10/7 was meant to capture Israeli hostages to exchange for those Palestinians kept captive by Israel. Hamas killed hardly any civilians on 10/7, but did kill a few hundred IDF soldiers, and in return, IDF killed a thousand or so Hamas members as well as many Israeli civilians in the kibbutz as well as those heading back to Gaza as hostages (see Hannibal Directive - israel would rather kill their civilians than let them be taken hostage).
So, whether you think Hamas was justified or not, a few hundred Israelis died and they got a few hundred hostages.
Since then? Israel has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians, ~100 times as many as died on 10/7. They've sniped women and children in the head, shot people with white flags over and over again (including 3 Israeli hostages that Hamas was releasing), bomb food aid trucks, destroy empty residential buildings, destroy mosques and churches (including US Congressman Justin Amash's Christian family), drop 500-1000lb bombs in the middle of tent city refugee camps because there MIGHT have been a hamas guy there, and so on. Their politicians - multiple of them, many times - outright admit that their goal is to destroy Gaza and make it uninhabitable, so that all 2 million Palestinians have no choice but to leave.
To justify it, Israel first said that thousands of Jews were killed. Then when that number came in low, and news came out that IDF had killed ~half or so of the people that day, they said Hamas beheaded 40 babies. They SWORE it was true, but it was too heinous to show anybody. Then, they said there were babies baked in ovens - but also showed no evidence. Then - they said Hamas was mass raping people (in the middle of a firefight with IDF soldiers? really?) - but again, it was only viewable in super secret IDF viewing rooms, and totally happened, even though not one person involved has said they were raped, and IDF has not rape-kit tested a single person. But uhh... they're out there, hundreds of them, mass raped, for sure! These lies were ALL pushed to justify the slaughter that has since taken place in Gaza.
And here you sit, with your stupid post, drinking the kool aid from our jewish fake news press, thinking you know anything about right and wrong or fact or fiction. Grow up and read something not published by Israel and their sycophants for once.
Gaza has been an open air prison? Why do you think the Egyptians are keeping their side of Gaza closed? I will tell you why. Because they do not want Palestinians coming in to Egypt in large numbers. Hamas is an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, and they share the fundamentalist Islamic hostility to a non-Islamic government. It was this sort of fundamentalists who assassinated Sadat, and the Egyptians do not want violent, corrupt, cruel and bloodthirsty Islamic fundamentalist terrorists in their country.
Do you know why the Jordanians kicked the Palestinian Fedayeen out of Jordan in 1970, why the Kuwaitis expelled maybe 400,000 Palestinians from Kuwait, and why refugee camps in Syria and Lebanon are so tightly restricted? Maybe you think the Palestinians are living happy, prosperous and free lives in Syrian and Lebanese camps – but, no Jews there, so let’s move on.
Gaza could have been an open and free enclave with economic prosperity and development if the Palestinian leadership had accepted the reality of Israel’s existence and cooperated with Israel. All of the restrictions placed on Gaza by Israel have been due to the lawless violence and brutal terrorism of the Palestinian leadership, who have also oppressed and murdered Palestinians – but your sole desire is to attack Israel for some reason.
The IDF regularly raids and kidnaps people who are terrorist murderers who want to kill Jews. Are they infallible? Have they maybe arrested or killed innocent people? So have American police arrested or killed innocent people on occasion. This is inescapable in the world we live in. Did American soldiers ever kill any non-combatant civilians in Vietnam?
You object to raiding houses at 3 AM. Do you think the Israelis should raid houses from 9AM-5PM and only on weekdays? It never occurred to you that 3AM has strategic value beyond mere harassment. And what if some Israeli soldiers bragged about harassment. Soldiers in war are not always nice guys. Have American or British soldiers ever said or done anything wrong in the passions of war?
Why does Israeli harassment bother you more than suicide bombers blowing themselves up in Israel, deliberating aiming at as many civilian casualties as possible?
As far as I can see you are motivated solely by hostility to Israel and have concern for no one else suffering anywhere in the world but only the Palestinians, and even then only some Palestinians, since their treatment in Syrian and Lebanese camps is a matter of complete indifference to you.
You talk about the purpose of the Hamas raid. The Hamas charter states that their objective is to destroy Israel and kill Jews and Hamas leaders have since October publicly stated their desire to repeat the attacks and kill as many Jews as possible as often as possible - which is fine with you. Just out of curiosity, do you believe the Jews control the banks and the news media in the USA?
The Israelis have every right to destroy Hamas, and any civilian casualties and suffering are directly the fault of Hamas. And if SOME Israeli politicians say that the solution is to make Gaza inhabitable so that the Gazans will have to leave, that is an obvious response after years and years of terror and rocket attacks. At least they are not saying all Arabs should be killed, which is what Hamas is saying about Jews.
If Arab terrorists say all Jews should be killed, who cares? But if an Israeli politician says Arabs should be not killed but driven out, you are filled with moral outrage. This is because your moral compass is broken. The Kuwaitis kicked Palestinians out of the country because of their support for Sadat, and this does not bother you, if you even knew about it.
You talk about all the horrors of war. Too bad the criminals of Hamas were so blinded by bloodlust that they had to attack the most militarily powerful country in the region. That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. In the past years Hamas has done exactly nothing to benefit the Palestinian people, and has devoted hundreds of millions, probably billions of dollars to destroying Israel and their leaders live in luxury having amassed fortunes with money stolen from foreign aid. But you have no problem with that. Is it because you only care about Palestinians insofar as it is a weapon you can use against Israel?
Destroying Hamas is now a legitimate military goal. I have no doubt if you had been living in the 1940s you could have written terrible stories about the sufferings of the poor Germans under brutal Allied air raids that were far more destructive than anything Israel has ever done – and no one would have paid any attention, they would have understood that Hitler needed to be destroyed, and this could not be done with bows and arrows.
The Americans and British killed more people in a single night numerous times than Israel has killed in fifty years. The firebombing of Tokyo in the spring of 1945, was the most destructive air raid in all of history and it was carefully planned ahead of time to maximize civilian casualties. 80,000-100,000 people or more were killed in one air raid, and that was considered to be a military necessity.
Civilian casualties are inescapable in modern war, but the IDF has a lower civilian / soldier death ration than many other armies in other conflicts. And, I have no doubt that some of the stories you tell are nothing but Hamas lies, though you may believe them sincerely yourself.
They destroy mosques, churches and schools? Why not, since Hamas has been using them to store weapons and supplies? And I do not believe they drop a bomb in the middle of a refugee camp merely because there might have been an Arab terrorist there.
My position is not based on any atrocity stories. It is based on Hamas attempts, repeated and openly stated over the years, to destroy Israel. The October raid was the last straw. And my position does not come from any fake Jewish news. It comes from the long held belief that the Jews have a right to a homeland in the land of Israel, and they have a right to defend themselves against those who want to destroy them.
Indiscriminate murder of civilians, widespread destruction or damaging of residential buildings, hospitals , cultural institutions, and civilian infrastructure, all justified by people in positions of political or military power who repeatedly dehumanize the Palestinians.
It is what it is - own up to it if you are going to cheer it on.
Who is cheering it on? No one is cheering it on. You can't even accurately characterize some simple posts, at least the ones I read, and certainly not mine.
Your broad description could be used to tar FDR and Winston Churchill as war criminals.
People don't fight with bows and arrows any more, modern weapons do not distinguish. So it is a good idea not to start wars.
Personally I hope the war ends as quickly as possible with the surrender and or destruction of Hamas.
Who is cheering it on? No one is cheering it on. You can't even accurately characterize some simple posts, at least the ones I read, and certainly not mine.
Your broad description could be used to tar FDR and Winston Churchill as war criminals.
People don't fight with bows and arrows any more, modern weapons do not distinguish. So it is a good idea not to start wars.
Personally I hope the war ends as quickly as possible with the surrender and or destruction of Hamas.
I'm waiting for more words to be used that you don't know the meaning of, let's go. Apartheid, concentration camp. You clearly don't belong in this chat as you truly don't know what is happening.
Israel isn't committing genocide. If you're that ignorant you're simply an anti semite who needs this to be true. No other country or conflict is blown up like this but Israel. There are no other explanation except that you're an anti-Semite. You bought the narrative and just are an easy mark.
Hope you're just as upset about Yazidis, Kurds, Somalians and many others. When Assad was killing Palestinians in Syria were you doing anything, nope you weren't. Stop with the feigned care.
I try to be circumspect in my comments here, but if this is purely a political play by Joe Biden to appease the Muslim vote in Michigan, then fuck that senile old son of a bitch. I remember Abbey Gate and the Afghanistan withdrawal disaster. I don’t want to see any more of our troops killed for no reason other than the vegetable in chief wants votes.
U.S. personnel will be in Gaza, or a few hundred yards offshore from Gaza, distributing aid either (1) in partnership with Hamas, or (2) in conflict with Hamas.
Which of those two possibilities makes this a good idea?
“What sort of malevolent nation supplies both sides of a bloody war?”
All wars are bankers wars. Feeding the belly’s of both beasts. Based on the writers’ knowledge and intellect, I can’t believe he doesn’t know this. So, I’m going to assume it’s just a rhetorical question.
Booz Allen Hamilton 2022 Annual Revenue: $8.36 billion
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Arms trade: Which countries and companies are selling weapons to Israel? | Middle East Eye
The United States is by far the biggest exporter of arms to Israel. Between 2009-2020, more than 70 percent of the arms Israel bought came from the US, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (Sipri) Arms Transfers database, which only includes major conventional weapons.
SIPRI is an excellent choice of a source, but as a swede I want to alert you to one fact that is a bit opaque to non-swedes:
The board and the research conducted is of the same excellent standard its been since the late 1960s.
But: the currently appointed chairman is mr Stefan Löfven, former PM of Sweden and former head of the Socialist Democrat party.
And well-known for his ignorance; he flunked out of becoming a welder three times in his youth, and has never had a real job outside the Party, nor does he have any kind of education beyond compulsory school and party-schooling. He is also known for being a real Parteigenossen and for being stultifyingly ignorant and unable to think for himself.
Choosing him for the position of chairman leads me to believe that the Socialist Democrats are trying to put SIPRI under their control, to skew the research in order to serve the goals of the Party.
Pretty sure the Israelis don't really want U.S. combat troops running around the beaches of Gaza getting mixed up in the crossfire.
If the Israelis USS Liberty'd the floating pier assembly because it was getting in the way and benefitting Hamas too much I'd almost forgive them this time. This sea-lift idea is stupid from so many angles. It's a poke in Israel's eye and at the same it's daring Hamas to attempt an Abbey Gate, as you point out. It's uniquely boneheaded in how efficiently it stirs up trouble from so many directions in a single act.
Israel says they're supportive of this and I believe them. Having 1000 US troops sitting 1/10th of a mile off the coast of a war zone with no air or artillery cover is a great deal for Bibi. If they don't get hit, it gets the US off his back about famine. IF they do get hit, the Americans will be pissed enough to enter the war on Bibi's side. Win-win from Israel's perspective.
You triggered the thought – maybe Biden or his controllers are looking to exit our 76 yr role as backstop “for the Jews,” and the price of a few dead American servicemen is regarded as insignificant. If that is true, I don’t think those retards realize the message it will send – that the U.S. will abandon *everyone* at the right time.
Nations do not “care.” They have strategic interests that guide their behavior towards consistency.
Few political parties do much to accommodate the members of their opponent parties. The key to the FJB admin’s criminality is the belief that Marxism is a prescription for anything except mass death.
Let me get this right, we're going to deliver aid to the palis who are being blown up with the aid we're giving to Israel? Sounds like it will work out great. "Hey there little buddy, sorry our Hebrew pals leveled your house and killed your family. Turn that frown upside down. Here's a halal MRE."
What's the motivation on Israeli side to ensure the safety of our troops? It's nothing but a win for for them if haji kills some of our troops. It would reinforce American support for them and stop a source of aid to their enemies. The Israelis have their own motivations and are entirely comfortable with using/enabling terrorism to achieve their goals.
Oh, the foreign policy spooks running foreign policy for the Bidens would love for Hamas to blow up the pier and kill a bunch of U.S. soldiers. Then they could justify going all in and helping Israel kill a bunch more Palestinians.
I have zero love for the Palestinians, but I'm tired of seeing our resources used to both subsidize and destroy them.
Even after 3 full years and the Afghan debacle, you still find it “mind boggling”?!? Personally I find it “par for the course.” What’s shocking is when they inadvertently do something right (no instance of which immediately comes to me).
As I learned from an Army O-6 mentor years ago - “hope is not a course of action”. This applies not only to military strategy and tactics, but to life in general...
“Adults in the White House”, that was what we were told. The reality…a bunch of clueless, dumb, political morons who have consistently shown to be incompetent in virtually every situation. Is the economy better, no. Are we safer as a country and as individuals, no. Does our kids educational achievements and performance continue to go down, yes. Do we continue on a path to become more and more financially unsustainable, yes.
And yet millions of people vote for these people and their policies.
The smarmy fucks who told us the Biden admin represented a return of "Adults in the white house" are the same people who call their dogs fur babies. They're children with adult responsibilities.
What do you have against children? I suspect many, if not most, children tend to be saner, and far more responsible, than the kleptocrats who currently infest the halls of power.
Hey, hey, hey – ixnay on the shade on the “fur babies.” Age 69, voted “R” since age 18, and have 3 horses, 2 miniature donkeys, 5 cats, 2 dogs (and 2 gun safes). 😂
War is an extremely ugly business precisely to dissuade people from starting one for casual reasons. Hamas started this war on Oct 7 because they were at risk of being abandoned by their Arab backers in the Abraham Accords process. For 70+ yrs, the Arabs’ message to Israel & the U.S. has been “First, peace with the Palestinians, then peace with us.” Under Trump, the Arabs started saying “OK, we’ll start exploring peace with Israel first.” Hamas responded by shitting in its own bathwater. 1,143 Israelis & visitors killed & 247 taken hostage.
My entire life, groups of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese have been murdering Jews of all ages & sexes, and then hiding behind their women & children. Inev
Inevitably, the world reacts as you have, and tells the Jews to just keep eating the losses. Fortunately, serious times bring us serious leaders, whether Churchill, FDR, Curtis LeMay or Netanyahu, who bring to bear the realization that victory is not without its moral cost, but that intentionally losing a war to avoid one’s personal moral qualms is obscene betrayal.
Saw this in real life for the first time on Sweden in the 1990s. Don't know what it was about, don't remember and don't care - but one group of arabs was protesting outside some embassy, and another group was protesting the protesters.
When police wanted to separate them, both groups immediately had their women - with stollers! - take the front rank.
That tells you all you need to know about arab "civilisation".
Sad but illuminating. So hiding behind strollers & mothers from beat cops, and in basements under them from bombs.
I did a little research & math: Gaza’s population has ≈25% military age males in a population of 2 million, so an eligible force of ≈500K. (I leave out the females b/c they would.) The IDF has a active force of 170K and a reserve of 465K. If the IDF is like every other army, the combat arms represent a comparatively smaller % of the force structure vs. the support functions necessary to keep the fighters supplied.
If the Palestinians REALLY believed in the Koran & 72 virgins, etc. etc., they’d equip every MAM with a rifle and march en mass into Israel – all 500K of them. Kind of a reverse “Children’s Crusade.” This would present the Israelis with a problem – their entire defense strategy is predicated on armor and airplanes, and of course, Palestinian personal cowardice.
One of my books (that I own, I'm no author) the writer takes and in-depth look of how the militaries of the region surrounding Israel were re-made after colonial rule ended.
A few things stand out, to the casual reader:
1) Long-standing alliances with nazi-Germany, especially from arabs living in what is today Palestine, led to virtually every nation that could do so recruiting former Wehrmacht, Gestapo, SS, and other such personnel. Not one or two, but on par with Operation: Paperclip or even greater in scope.
2) The germans in question noted that arabs were then (and remain today) the possibly worst material for soldiers in the world, due to their culturally conditioned zero-trust mentality. The soldiers didn't trust each other to provide support and back up or to advance in concert, the officers had the same issues and so di the commanding echelons who'd jockey for every opportunity to place more members of their own clan in prominent positions before any other considerations. One exercise where german-commanded egyptian forces trained for an assault over Sinai into Israel (1950s) resulted in a big nothing: neither the northern, central or southern group would advance because none of them trusted the others to advance with them. All of them expected the others to have them be the first ones fed into the israeli army. This included air force, artillery, AA-artillery, armour and infantry both on foot and mechanised.
Point 2 is what makes your scenario unlikely. Arabs have always won their wars by overwhelming force in frontal assaults or by attrition, and in the latter case attrition means years of banditry, sabotage, plunder and low-impact attacks until the occupier simply packs up and leaves or surrenders from exhaustion.
They are very good at violence, and very bad at war, is one to put it.
This just in, effete political appointee flag officers, midwit bureaucrats, and even stupider elected politicians plan on sending US troops into harms way in a middle east mission with zero national security benefits for the American people…in other breaking news, the sun is expected to rise in the east tomorrow morning…
As someone who spent a dozen years helping grow and secure the empire as combat service support for the legions, I’m not sure what’s more laughable, the idea that anyone above battalion (maybe regimental) command gives a single shit about getting a few troops ground up into hamburger meat as long as their agenda is being met, or the idea that calling or writing the cowardly politicians that we’ve sent to DC who have all been cucked by the military industrial complex and certain foreign governments would make any difference whatsoever…
Why do the words Mogadishu and Beirut come to mind?
I can see so many ways this goes horribly wrong. The only way it works (for versions of works that mean US forces remain alive) is if the port goes in at the northern end of the strip which has been mostly pacified and then the IDF distributes the aid from it.
That obviously doesn't help the "poor starving gazan refugees" in Rafah which Biden('s handlers) care about
“…the key point here is that if Hamas truly believes that the people, the Palestinian people are suffering, then why would they want to take this aid and use it for themselves to support their terrorist organization?”
I didn’t realize the DoD was giving direct commissions at the O-8 level to Oberlin humanities professors…
Told you so, he said bitterly. They will knowlingly put US soldiers in harm's way to get their pretext for a "peace-keeping action".
Welcome to the eternal war. It seems US political and military leadership no longer studies US intervention against the slavers and pirates of what is now Libya, Algeria, Tunisia and surrounding areas.
Overwhelming force, meaning tens of thousands if not a hundred thousand soldiers alone with all the other forces to back them up, in Gaza alone - which will necessitate going into Palestine proper and also into Lebanon.
Plus going into Jemen, Quatar, and other Gulf States and taking out all Hamas leadership and allies. Plus somehow getting egyptians and saudis to hand over any and all Hamas supporting persons and personnel in their nations' organisations.
That's what this has the potential to escalate into for the US: a war approaching WW2 levels. It would mean tremendous problems with transports via Suez, serving to make the capitalist rober barons of the US even richer when they can amp up prices even further using the rax-funded war for profit as an excuse. It will mean enomrously more expensive fuel since oil production will drop towards zero in MENA - you don't think "drill baby drill" will mean /lowered/ prices under such circumstances, do you?
It will mean needing to quickly bribe Russia to play nice, meaning handing half of Ukraine over to them (unless your military is /really/ retarded and wants to go in for a two-dfront or even three-front war - Taiwan).
It will mean asking NATO-members for military aid, something that may be impossible for nations such as Germany, Britain and France. Not due to lagging investments in their military but because they have millions of people sympathetic to palestinians on their soil, foreigners that already hate them and that already murder, rape and plunder as a matter of fact - to arabs, it's not a crime if it's done against infidels and "crusader peoples". So military may very well be needed to keep some peace at home instead of going abroad.
This has the makings of being very, very profitable. And since the only metric of ethics under capitalism is Profit = Good, you just might have seen the Pentagon decide the equivalent of Anschluss.
If the US wants to create peace in the region in and around Israel, you'd need millions of soldiers there permanently, and you would need military colonial rule keeping both jew and arab under foot. Or go the route of Ramses II, Alexander and Octavian.
What is “Palestine proper?” Judea & Samaria are the very core of the Jewish homeland (historically, if not legally at present). And “Gaza” exists solely because it happened to be the land controlled by Egyptian forces at the end of the 1948 War. It has no historical significance as a region.
I’m reminded of a quote from “Lawrence of Arabia”:
“Sherif Ali, so long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are.”
That pretty well sums up Hamas and the Palestinians.
In 2014, due to internal politicking from the Socialist Democrats, Greens, Communists, Christian Democrats and Liberals as well as our Libertarians, Sweden acknowledged Palestine as a state.
Hence, "Palestine proper".
Besides, a state exists if enough other states with enough power acknowledge it to do so: otherwise, Israel would not exist. The historical record is (apart from actual history) nothing but a justification of such acknowledgements, or lack thereof.
I like your approach, but there’s a difference between a state and a large gang of terrorists. I don’t immediately recall any other states that are solely “anti-matter” – the Palestinians exist solely to oppose Israel.
No arguement there - the arabs of that area, the ones that didn't wind up in Jordan or in camps in surrounding areas (where the third and fourth and even fifth generation palestinian arabs eke out a bleak existence as slaves to other arab tribes) have been used and abused as an excuse for the surrounding states, who would like to see Israel cease to exist.
"Funny" thing about that is, /when/ the arabs finally grind Israel to dust, which is inevitable - the first thing that will happen is that the various arab states will start going to war with each other.
Wouldn't go that far - too risky for the powers wanting to profit from war.
However, if Israel would be threatened for real, they would probably deploy their Samson-plan, if able. (Think it was called Samson? It's been twenty-plus years since I read about it.)
Meaning they would not only target military targets but also moslem population centers, Mekka, and some european cities in retaliation.
China, US, Russia, India, Pakistan deploying nuclear weapons is such a long-shot I'd rate it somewhere with Biden being honest and coherent in probability.
Ah-huh. Apologies - but we both remember the latter-stage Cold War and the "Doomsday Clock", and how every conflict was speculated by media as the prelude to gloal thermonuclear war, don't we?
I also have this sneaking suspicion that the nuclear powers are vastly over-stating their arsenals and capabilities these days: with MAD and deterrence off the table nowadays, nuclear weapons are more a last-resort defensive measure and a matter of pride, than an actual strategic/tactical weapon.
Nuclear tangent:
I mean for crying out loud - even Sweden had a nuclear weapons programme back in the day! The idea was to produce thousands of 1.5 kiloton warheads that could be fired from the Bofors Bandkanon 155, giving us the option to blanket a Soviet invasion force with nuclear artillety. For real, the idea was to be capable of a nuclear barrage, with up to a dozen vehicles in synch, firing in a grid pattern. The Bandkanon was pretty awesome for its time, but sadly our politicians ruined the project (not the nuclear weapons, Bandkanon was perfectly fine with conventional shells).
The Wiki-article claims it as a myth, due to the US not being willing to export its W48 atomic shell.
Outstanding column. I'm calling Port Gaza "Beirut 2." I commanded the SpecWar Det in Beruit in the spring of 83 and I have intimate awareness of the problems crossing the beach into an insecure politically senstivive environment. Another factor not mentioned yet: There is 1,200 miles of open sea "fetch" west of Gaza. In Beirut we had storms that put 8 foot breaking surf on the beach and wrecked the LST-provided "causeway section" pier. It will be summer by the time this fiasco is in swing, but a strong westerly cannot be ruled out in any month. This is not the Chesapeake Bay.
Hey, I was on the USS Belknap, providing gunfire support in 83. ! Small world.
I know nothing but this seems like it can only go wrong.
Highly recommended new video by "What's Up With Shipping" on "Port Gaza" aka "Beirut 2"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98_gzyt9N-Y&ab_channel=WhatisGoingonWithShipping%3F
"if Hamas truly does care about the Palestinian people..." No. They don't. HAMAS cares about killing Jews and if Palestinians have to die, too, well so be it.
I wrote a while back about the fake debate over whether or not Hamas used al-Shifa hospital as a command center. And as I wrote then, that hospital was familiar because Amnesty International had long since identified it as the place where Hamas tortured and murdered Palestinians who opposed them politically. But they care deeply, for sure.
Israel has killed tens of thousands of innocent women and children, and this is the kind of garbage you post? Are you even jewish or are you just a useful and/or bribed idiot?
Jason, you believe Hamas’s lies and propaganda, ignore the fact that Hamas started this round with an unprovoked attack on Israeli civilians, including raping women and children & torturing and kidnapping those that they didn’t kill, having been busy with random rocket attacks since the last major battle between the two (H&I) and ignore that atrocity.
You are just a shill for Hamas, who is adept at sowing the wind and you, fool that you are expect us to condemn Israel for being the justified whirlwind?
Stupider than a b on x of rocks.
Late reply to your late reply but,
The attack wasn't unprovoked. Israel has been abusing Gaza for decades, and has thousands of Palestinian kids they kidnap and keep in jail for years on end without charges. The 10/7 raid was an attempt to capture hostages to exchange for those people.
There were zero rapes on 10/7, there was no torture, and the vast majority of Israelis killed were IDF soldiers, on or off duty. There were kidnappings - that was the entire point of the raid - but the IDF bombed a huge number (some believe it was about half) of the Israelis killed on that day, as they have a "Hannibal Directive" to kill their own people rather than let them be taken hostage.
You can quibble with the above, but Hamas killed a few hundred Israelis, and Israel killed a few hundred of their own people (along with ~1000+ Hamas members) trying to flee back into Gaza. Since then, Israel has killed 30,000 Palestinians, blown up nearly every building, farm, water treatment plant, mosque, etc., shot tens of people with white flags (including 3 Israelis that were released by Hamas https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-hostages-killed-mistakenly-gaza-were-holding-white-flag-official-says-2023-12-16/), blockedes food and water aid but then bombs/shoots people when they do finally get aid, and on and on. They post videos laughing about these intentional civilian shootings and bombings. They lie to us all that Hamas beheaded 40 babies (total lie), burned a baby (total lie), conducted mass rape (total lie - still to this day, there is zero evidence of even one rape on 10/7 nor of any hostage, let alone mass rape), etc. And here you are, a supposedly intelligent MD, unable to see or understand any of this due to propaganda.
"There were zero rapes on 10/7"
What absolutely shameless horseshit this is.
https://thehill.com/homenews/4507363-united-nations-group-finds-hamas-committed-sexual-violence-on-oct-7/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/4/reasonable-grounds-to-believe-hamas-committed-sexual-violence-un
"Patten said her team was not able to meet with any victims of sexual violence"
"reasonable grounds to believe"
"Credible circumstantial information, which may be indicative "
"May be"... "reasonable"... "indicative"... etc. etc.
In other words, there were no rapes on video, no pictures of rape, no survivors who said they were raped, and no forensic rape kits of the dead indicating they were raped. The evidence consists of abuse and mutilation of dead bodies, and little else. I stand by my statement.
And I am guessing that you are going to claim that Hamas has not been shooting rockets into Israel from beside or beneath hospitals and schools for years and other terrorist activities. I think this conversation is done. I don’t communicate with alternate universes or realities.
The fact that a general in the United States Army can even entertain such a ridiculous thought tells me everything I need to know about how this is going to turn out.
This is what DEI thinking gets you: a total inability to correctly perceive the world. Postmodernism (of which DEI is a piece) literally preaches that "words create reality". Generals and colonels can get away with being postmodernist; sergeants can't. They know that when someone is shooting RPGs at you, words don't change reality.
It’s the sergeants that keep the men alive…
Hooah
So in your brain-dead worldview, Hamas should have quietly accepted apartheid Israel's slow motion absorption of first the West Bank and then the rest of Jerusalem and Gaza.
Israel does not equal Jews. Stop using religion to hide your genocide.
Israel withdrew from Gaza, removed Jewish settlers, and left it to Palestinian self-governance. This is not "absorption."
I'm so sorry to be a dick about it but. Israel forcibly removed the settlers from Gaza so it could be what it has been ever since, which is a free fire zone whenever Bibi wants to look tough. Now Gaza is an open air concentration camp – scratch that, a death camp. The Gazans tried non violence in 2019 with their weekly "Great march of Return" unarmed mass gatherings at the fence line and the IDF response was snipers who wore "One Shot Two Kills" T-shirts. Their water and power and food was restricted and now it's cut off completely. They are bombing Rafah's tent cities while Hamas is invulnerable as the IDF well knows. How many Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF on Oct 7 is anybody's guess but it was surely not less than hundreds out of the total; the IDF admitted that they sprayed the open air music festival from gunships. What Israel is doing is genocide. When Gaza is done they will accelerate the slow genocide in the West Bank. I will take my information from Miko Peled and Norman Finkelstein and I urge everyone to do likewise.
The epitome of historical dishonesty and inaccuracy who has done none of his own scholarship and just recites, inaccurately, what others have researched is your source, I'm sorry for you and explains the state of affairs and your highly skewed view of what's really happening. If Israel wanted to flatten Gaza, it would've been on Oct 31. Genocide means the population is reduced, perhaps worth googling actual genocides. This isn't. It's funny how no matter what evidence would be brought up to you or the completely dishonorable smug Finkelstein, you will never be able to change your perspective because your view of blood lust hungry occupiers that are Israel cannot be swayed. Perhaps you may want to Beni Morris for some historical context or John Spencer about modern warfare who will prove to you that there are no way 30k civilians are killed in Gaza, but I highly doubt you'd be able to even TRY to see another perspective that might shake your preconceived inculcated beliefs. I hope I'm wrong. I won't be replying anymore, just in case you decide to proceed with more nonsense.
Almost every building in northern gaza was leveled; they aren't letting any food in, nor medicine, and they cut off the water supply. Nearly all the hospitals are bombed, all the mosques and churches are bombed, and the death distribution of women, children, and men, matches the population percentage of Gaza (i.e. IDF has been indiscriminately killing Gazans, not targeting Hamas in any substantive way, or else % Adult Men dead would be much higher). They've killed far, far, far more civilians than Russia and Ukraine combined in their actual, 100k+ soldiers on both sides, war. They are evil incarnate and you are a bad person for defending them.
A. 30% of buildings. B. Highest numbers of food aid has been going in to Gaza, building and other aid isn't going in for obvious reasons. C. All the hospitals, mosques, churches are bombed is a blatant lie. One need not go far to find people posting to TikTok parks and mosques. D. The distribution does not match the population percentage at all, nor is it statistically viable but you chose to just parrot what's been told to you. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers E. No combatants are distinguished in those statistics. F. Not to be offensive but it will be anyway, anyone who believes Hamas lies is a moron. G. Anyone not saying ONE word about Syria for example killing 500k people but must say that Israel is evil incarnate is a anti-semite. There is no other explanation.
I won't be replying because you're beyond help and cannot be taken seriously. Nothing you said can be substantiated in any kind of way. You just NEED Israel to be this to make your worldview aligned. If you watch or listened to testimony of what happened on October 7th you'd understand what targeting civilians in the most barbaric way possible means. Also, indicative that you chose to reply so fast without bothering to even look up either Beni Morris or John Spencer. Your views cannot be moved with facts or evidence because they are set - that's the epitome of being indoctrinated. I'm willing to move my position if presented with evidence and I'm able to criticize Israel where necessary and admit mistakes, like a rational logical adult. You cannot see past the propaganda you were fed and to admit it now would be too fragile and impossible for your ego to undertake. Palestinians are humans who aren't passive things to be done unto - they have chosen certain actions or inactions and bear the consequences of it, as we all do in life.
I feel truly sorry for you because the world you live in is so veiled in lies that if someone would pee on you, you'd say it's raining. Best of luck !
So acceding to Palestinian demands is undermining the Palestinians? Your reasoning reminds me of Kendi’s “anti-racism”…
I don't understand what you mean. Are you replying to my remark above: "I'm so sorry .... everyone to do likewise."?
I was referring to this statement: “Israel forcibly removed the settlers from Gaza so it could be what it has been ever since, which is a free fire zone whenever Bibi wants to look tough.”
So, negotiations were held; the Palestinians demanded the settlements be removed; the Oslo accords were signed; and Israel removed the settlements down to the bare earth. And yet somehow Israel was still all wrong?
(Before you answer, you should know this “logic” sounds like a fight between a recently married couple, one of whom has raging hormones from pregnancy.)
One need only look at the Christian populations in, say the West Bank or Lebanon to see the genocide in the region. Well, maybe not genocide, it’s only ethnic cleansing.
"[...] slow motion absorption of FIRST the West Bank and then the rest of Jerusalem and Gaza."
Or are you saying decades of settlement expansion isn't considered absorption? Call it whatever you want.
So are you saying it was justifiable for hamas to kill 1200 Jews (many of them women and children) over this perceived "slow expansion?" You believe violence is the only answer?
I am saying violence and oppression will lead to violence and oppression. Meanwhile, you justify the mass murder of children.
And the expansion is not "perceived". That's the most basic and uncontroversial fact imaginable. Here is one example -
June 14th, 2023 - "Israel set to approve over 4,500 new settlement homes in West Bank"
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-set-to-approve-over-4500-new-settlement-homes-in-west-bank-report/
Hamas embeds itself among hospitals and schools. It's unfortunate any children are killed, but it's because hamas puts them in harm's way.
Israel kicked their own people out of Gaza to give it to the Palestinians. That's hardly an expansion. 20% of Israel is populated by Arabs and Palestinians. They have houses all over Israel. Why is that ok, but israel can't have some homes in the West Bank?
These 20% Arabs/ Palestinian live peacefully in Israel and even have representation in Israel's government. There are NO Jews in Gaza.
Israel has a choice in it's policies and methods, and it is choosing carpet bombing and mass starvation. No variants of the human shield argument justify genocide.
Gaza was not Israel's to give. And even after leaving, they regularly bombed it, and enforced a blockade over the land, sea, and air.
Israel can't have "some homes" in the West Bank because that is not their land.
The thousands of people including women and children who have been arrested in the West Bank are not living peacefully. The Palestinians who regularly have their homes demolished or their means of making a living eradicated are not living peacefully. The hundreds of thousands who have been driven to Gaza, Egypt, and Jordan are not living peacefully. That has been going on for decades.
When you use terms like "carpet bombing," I can't take you seriously.
“Israel…is choosing…mass starvation.”
I don’t understand – The top 3 Hamas leaders hav $11 billion in Qatar that could buy food today. If their people lack food, it’s Hamas’ doing.
Please give me an example of someone innocent arrested in the West Bank.
Israel has been regularly allowing food and supplies to be delivered to Gaza residents. If they are starving, it's because hamas is taking the supplies.
Hamas can stop this by releasing the hostages. Why won't they do that?
We all want peace in the Middle East, but surely you can understand that when hamas killed 1200 (many of them women and children) and took over 200 hostages that Israel had to respond?
“People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” - Richard Grenier (summarizing George Orwell)
I thought it was Winston Churchill
Oh yes, cheers to those brave rough men who butcher thousands of children.
Orwell wrote the essence of that aphorism in 1942, long before the Palestinians had started hiding behind their women, children, elderly & sick.
I don't think you know or understand what's going on or has been going on Israel at all. It would be good if you expanded your knowledge beyond flashy group think social media posts and did some research.
It'd be good if Israel stopped committing genocide.
I don't understand how the Israelis can stop committing genocide when they have never been committing genocide. Of course, there is the very real possibility that you know very well that the Israelis have never tried to systematically commit genocide and that their military actions are self-defense pure and simple, but you use to word "genocide" only to commit dishonest propaganda.
The Palestinians read Kendi – the only way to stop imaginary genocide is to commit reverse genocide…
Right, imaginary evils can be used to justify real ones.
They are committing genocide. Gaza has been an open air prison where IDF regularly raids and kidnaps people, and uses terrorism (such as raiding random civilian houses at 3AM just to make sure the people don't get too uppity - seriously, they have admitted doing this) against the population. Israel has hundreds of children and thousands of innocent people kept prisoner from such raids. Hamas's raid on 10/7 was meant to capture Israeli hostages to exchange for those Palestinians kept captive by Israel. Hamas killed hardly any civilians on 10/7, but did kill a few hundred IDF soldiers, and in return, IDF killed a thousand or so Hamas members as well as many Israeli civilians in the kibbutz as well as those heading back to Gaza as hostages (see Hannibal Directive - israel would rather kill their civilians than let them be taken hostage).
So, whether you think Hamas was justified or not, a few hundred Israelis died and they got a few hundred hostages.
Since then? Israel has killed tens of thousands of Palestinians, ~100 times as many as died on 10/7. They've sniped women and children in the head, shot people with white flags over and over again (including 3 Israeli hostages that Hamas was releasing), bomb food aid trucks, destroy empty residential buildings, destroy mosques and churches (including US Congressman Justin Amash's Christian family), drop 500-1000lb bombs in the middle of tent city refugee camps because there MIGHT have been a hamas guy there, and so on. Their politicians - multiple of them, many times - outright admit that their goal is to destroy Gaza and make it uninhabitable, so that all 2 million Palestinians have no choice but to leave.
To justify it, Israel first said that thousands of Jews were killed. Then when that number came in low, and news came out that IDF had killed ~half or so of the people that day, they said Hamas beheaded 40 babies. They SWORE it was true, but it was too heinous to show anybody. Then, they said there were babies baked in ovens - but also showed no evidence. Then - they said Hamas was mass raping people (in the middle of a firefight with IDF soldiers? really?) - but again, it was only viewable in super secret IDF viewing rooms, and totally happened, even though not one person involved has said they were raped, and IDF has not rape-kit tested a single person. But uhh... they're out there, hundreds of them, mass raped, for sure! These lies were ALL pushed to justify the slaughter that has since taken place in Gaza.
And here you sit, with your stupid post, drinking the kool aid from our jewish fake news press, thinking you know anything about right and wrong or fact or fiction. Grow up and read something not published by Israel and their sycophants for once.
Gaza has been an open air prison? Why do you think the Egyptians are keeping their side of Gaza closed? I will tell you why. Because they do not want Palestinians coming in to Egypt in large numbers. Hamas is an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, and they share the fundamentalist Islamic hostility to a non-Islamic government. It was this sort of fundamentalists who assassinated Sadat, and the Egyptians do not want violent, corrupt, cruel and bloodthirsty Islamic fundamentalist terrorists in their country.
Do you know why the Jordanians kicked the Palestinian Fedayeen out of Jordan in 1970, why the Kuwaitis expelled maybe 400,000 Palestinians from Kuwait, and why refugee camps in Syria and Lebanon are so tightly restricted? Maybe you think the Palestinians are living happy, prosperous and free lives in Syrian and Lebanese camps – but, no Jews there, so let’s move on.
Gaza could have been an open and free enclave with economic prosperity and development if the Palestinian leadership had accepted the reality of Israel’s existence and cooperated with Israel. All of the restrictions placed on Gaza by Israel have been due to the lawless violence and brutal terrorism of the Palestinian leadership, who have also oppressed and murdered Palestinians – but your sole desire is to attack Israel for some reason.
The IDF regularly raids and kidnaps people who are terrorist murderers who want to kill Jews. Are they infallible? Have they maybe arrested or killed innocent people? So have American police arrested or killed innocent people on occasion. This is inescapable in the world we live in. Did American soldiers ever kill any non-combatant civilians in Vietnam?
You object to raiding houses at 3 AM. Do you think the Israelis should raid houses from 9AM-5PM and only on weekdays? It never occurred to you that 3AM has strategic value beyond mere harassment. And what if some Israeli soldiers bragged about harassment. Soldiers in war are not always nice guys. Have American or British soldiers ever said or done anything wrong in the passions of war?
Why does Israeli harassment bother you more than suicide bombers blowing themselves up in Israel, deliberating aiming at as many civilian casualties as possible?
As far as I can see you are motivated solely by hostility to Israel and have concern for no one else suffering anywhere in the world but only the Palestinians, and even then only some Palestinians, since their treatment in Syrian and Lebanese camps is a matter of complete indifference to you.
You talk about the purpose of the Hamas raid. The Hamas charter states that their objective is to destroy Israel and kill Jews and Hamas leaders have since October publicly stated their desire to repeat the attacks and kill as many Jews as possible as often as possible - which is fine with you. Just out of curiosity, do you believe the Jews control the banks and the news media in the USA?
The Israelis have every right to destroy Hamas, and any civilian casualties and suffering are directly the fault of Hamas. And if SOME Israeli politicians say that the solution is to make Gaza inhabitable so that the Gazans will have to leave, that is an obvious response after years and years of terror and rocket attacks. At least they are not saying all Arabs should be killed, which is what Hamas is saying about Jews.
If Arab terrorists say all Jews should be killed, who cares? But if an Israeli politician says Arabs should be not killed but driven out, you are filled with moral outrage. This is because your moral compass is broken. The Kuwaitis kicked Palestinians out of the country because of their support for Sadat, and this does not bother you, if you even knew about it.
You talk about all the horrors of war. Too bad the criminals of Hamas were so blinded by bloodlust that they had to attack the most militarily powerful country in the region. That was an incredibly stupid thing to do. In the past years Hamas has done exactly nothing to benefit the Palestinian people, and has devoted hundreds of millions, probably billions of dollars to destroying Israel and their leaders live in luxury having amassed fortunes with money stolen from foreign aid. But you have no problem with that. Is it because you only care about Palestinians insofar as it is a weapon you can use against Israel?
Destroying Hamas is now a legitimate military goal. I have no doubt if you had been living in the 1940s you could have written terrible stories about the sufferings of the poor Germans under brutal Allied air raids that were far more destructive than anything Israel has ever done – and no one would have paid any attention, they would have understood that Hitler needed to be destroyed, and this could not be done with bows and arrows.
The Americans and British killed more people in a single night numerous times than Israel has killed in fifty years. The firebombing of Tokyo in the spring of 1945, was the most destructive air raid in all of history and it was carefully planned ahead of time to maximize civilian casualties. 80,000-100,000 people or more were killed in one air raid, and that was considered to be a military necessity.
Civilian casualties are inescapable in modern war, but the IDF has a lower civilian / soldier death ration than many other armies in other conflicts. And, I have no doubt that some of the stories you tell are nothing but Hamas lies, though you may believe them sincerely yourself.
They destroy mosques, churches and schools? Why not, since Hamas has been using them to store weapons and supplies? And I do not believe they drop a bomb in the middle of a refugee camp merely because there might have been an Arab terrorist there.
My position is not based on any atrocity stories. It is based on Hamas attempts, repeated and openly stated over the years, to destroy Israel. The October raid was the last straw. And my position does not come from any fake Jewish news. It comes from the long held belief that the Jews have a right to a homeland in the land of Israel, and they have a right to defend themselves against those who want to destroy them.
Indiscriminate murder of civilians, widespread destruction or damaging of residential buildings, hospitals , cultural institutions, and civilian infrastructure, all justified by people in positions of political or military power who repeatedly dehumanize the Palestinians.
It is what it is - own up to it if you are going to cheer it on.
It is plainly not indiscriminate killing, and there's no "dehumanizing." Gaza attacked, and is now being attacked.
Who is cheering it on? No one is cheering it on. You can't even accurately characterize some simple posts, at least the ones I read, and certainly not mine.
Your broad description could be used to tar FDR and Winston Churchill as war criminals.
People don't fight with bows and arrows any more, modern weapons do not distinguish. So it is a good idea not to start wars.
Personally I hope the war ends as quickly as possible with the surrender and or destruction of Hamas.
Who is cheering it on? No one is cheering it on. You can't even accurately characterize some simple posts, at least the ones I read, and certainly not mine.
Your broad description could be used to tar FDR and Winston Churchill as war criminals.
People don't fight with bows and arrows any more, modern weapons do not distinguish. So it is a good idea not to start wars.
Personally I hope the war ends as quickly as possible with the surrender and or destruction of Hamas.
I'm waiting for more words to be used that you don't know the meaning of, let's go. Apartheid, concentration camp. You clearly don't belong in this chat as you truly don't know what is happening.
Israel isn't committing genocide. If you're that ignorant you're simply an anti semite who needs this to be true. No other country or conflict is blown up like this but Israel. There are no other explanation except that you're an anti-Semite. You bought the narrative and just are an easy mark.
Hope you're just as upset about Yazidis, Kurds, Somalians and many others. When Assad was killing Palestinians in Syria were you doing anything, nope you weren't. Stop with the feigned care.
Bravissimo! 👏👍
False, you saying apartheid, doesn’t make it true.
Pg Hubby: the Braindead is you Hamas loving, Jew hater.
Yes they do, wtf are they fighting for then?
I try to be circumspect in my comments here, but if this is purely a political play by Joe Biden to appease the Muslim vote in Michigan, then fuck that senile old son of a bitch. I remember Abbey Gate and the Afghanistan withdrawal disaster. I don’t want to see any more of our troops killed for no reason other than the vegetable in chief wants votes.
Endorsed
It’s politicking before the election. Did Iran also get another 10 billion in sanctions reprieve?
U.S. personnel will be in Gaza, or a few hundred yards offshore from Gaza, distributing aid either (1) in partnership with Hamas, or (2) in conflict with Hamas.
Which of those two possibilities makes this a good idea?
Or both, on alternating days!
Let's "hope" so!
“What sort of malevolent nation supplies both sides of a bloody war?”
All wars are bankers wars. Feeding the belly’s of both beasts. Based on the writers’ knowledge and intellect, I can’t believe he doesn’t know this. So, I’m going to assume it’s just a rhetorical question.
Thanks for posting.
Spot on
The 12 Largest Defense Companies In The United States - Zippia
Raytheon 2022 Annual Revenue: $67.07 billion
Boeing 2022 Annual Revenue: $66.61 billion
Lockheed Martin 2022 Annual Revenue: $65.98 billion
General Dynamics 2022 Annual Revenue: $39.41 billion
Northrop Grumman 2022 Annual Revenue: $36.6 billion
BAE Systems 2022 Annual Revenue: $26.29 billion
L3Harris 2022 Annual Revenue: $17.06 billion
Leidos 2022 Annual Revenue: $14.4 billion
Huntington Ingalls Industries 2022 Annual Revenue: $10.7 billion
Booz Allen Hamilton 2022 Annual Revenue: $8.36 billion
Oshkosh 2022 Annual Revenue: $8.28 billion
Science Applications International 2022 Annual Revenue: $7.70 billion
Arms trade: Which countries and companies are selling weapons to Israel? | Middle East Eye
The United States is by far the biggest exporter of arms to Israel. Between 2009-2020, more than 70 percent of the arms Israel bought came from the US, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (Sipri) Arms Transfers database, which only includes major conventional weapons.
SIPRI is an excellent choice of a source, but as a swede I want to alert you to one fact that is a bit opaque to non-swedes:
The board and the research conducted is of the same excellent standard its been since the late 1960s.
But: the currently appointed chairman is mr Stefan Löfven, former PM of Sweden and former head of the Socialist Democrat party.
And well-known for his ignorance; he flunked out of becoming a welder three times in his youth, and has never had a real job outside the Party, nor does he have any kind of education beyond compulsory school and party-schooling. He is also known for being a real Parteigenossen and for being stultifyingly ignorant and unable to think for himself.
Choosing him for the position of chairman leads me to believe that the Socialist Democrats are trying to put SIPRI under their control, to skew the research in order to serve the goals of the Party.
That truth becomes more and more clear as we go forward.
Pretty sure the Israelis don't really want U.S. combat troops running around the beaches of Gaza getting mixed up in the crossfire.
If the Israelis USS Liberty'd the floating pier assembly because it was getting in the way and benefitting Hamas too much I'd almost forgive them this time. This sea-lift idea is stupid from so many angles. It's a poke in Israel's eye and at the same it's daring Hamas to attempt an Abbey Gate, as you point out. It's uniquely boneheaded in how efficiently it stirs up trouble from so many directions in a single act.
Israel says they're supportive of this and I believe them. Having 1000 US troops sitting 1/10th of a mile off the coast of a war zone with no air or artillery cover is a great deal for Bibi. If they don't get hit, it gets the US off his back about famine. IF they do get hit, the Americans will be pissed enough to enter the war on Bibi's side. Win-win from Israel's perspective.
You triggered the thought – maybe Biden or his controllers are looking to exit our 76 yr role as backstop “for the Jews,” and the price of a few dead American servicemen is regarded as insignificant. If that is true, I don’t think those retards realize the message it will send – that the U.S. will abandon *everyone* at the right time.
haven't they already abandoned enough of us to see that they really do NOT care
Nations do not “care.” They have strategic interests that guide their behavior towards consistency.
Few political parties do much to accommodate the members of their opponent parties. The key to the FJB admin’s criminality is the belief that Marxism is a prescription for anything except mass death.
Let me get this right, we're going to deliver aid to the palis who are being blown up with the aid we're giving to Israel? Sounds like it will work out great. "Hey there little buddy, sorry our Hebrew pals leveled your house and killed your family. Turn that frown upside down. Here's a halal MRE."
What's the motivation on Israeli side to ensure the safety of our troops? It's nothing but a win for for them if haji kills some of our troops. It would reinforce American support for them and stop a source of aid to their enemies. The Israelis have their own motivations and are entirely comfortable with using/enabling terrorism to achieve their goals.
The stupidity of our leadership is mind boggling.
Oh, the foreign policy spooks running foreign policy for the Bidens would love for Hamas to blow up the pier and kill a bunch of U.S. soldiers. Then they could justify going all in and helping Israel kill a bunch more Palestinians.
I have zero love for the Palestinians, but I'm tired of seeing our resources used to both subsidize and destroy them.
Even after 3 full years and the Afghan debacle, you still find it “mind boggling”?!? Personally I find it “par for the course.” What’s shocking is when they inadvertently do something right (no instance of which immediately comes to me).
Thank you! My God, some sanity.
As I learned from an Army O-6 mentor years ago - “hope is not a course of action”. This applies not only to military strategy and tactics, but to life in general...
Spot on.
Hope is simply a substitution for strategy when a biz plan or war plan does not allow for change in tactics when the facts on the ground change.
Now that is a great line and point!
“Adults in the White House”, that was what we were told. The reality…a bunch of clueless, dumb, political morons who have consistently shown to be incompetent in virtually every situation. Is the economy better, no. Are we safer as a country and as individuals, no. Does our kids educational achievements and performance continue to go down, yes. Do we continue on a path to become more and more financially unsustainable, yes.
And yet millions of people vote for these people and their policies.
The smarmy fucks who told us the Biden admin represented a return of "Adults in the white house" are the same people who call their dogs fur babies. They're children with adult responsibilities.
What do you have against children? I suspect many, if not most, children tend to be saner, and far more responsible, than the kleptocrats who currently infest the halls of power.
Hey, hey, hey – ixnay on the shade on the “fur babies.” Age 69, voted “R” since age 18, and have 3 horses, 2 miniature donkeys, 5 cats, 2 dogs (and 2 gun safes). 😂
The main policy most of those millions care about is abortion. Got to be able to kill your own unborn child.
At government expense!
Sounds like they're setting up innocent US servicemen (and women?) to be cannon fodder to possibly
justify a larger "offensive" in the Gaza area....
I think it’s the reverse – I think Joe’s handlers are anti-Semites and are manufacturing an excuse to abandon the Israelis altogether.
Anyone who opposes mass murder of women and children is an anti-Semite now? I guess I'm an anti-semite.
War is an extremely ugly business precisely to dissuade people from starting one for casual reasons. Hamas started this war on Oct 7 because they were at risk of being abandoned by their Arab backers in the Abraham Accords process. For 70+ yrs, the Arabs’ message to Israel & the U.S. has been “First, peace with the Palestinians, then peace with us.” Under Trump, the Arabs started saying “OK, we’ll start exploring peace with Israel first.” Hamas responded by shitting in its own bathwater. 1,143 Israelis & visitors killed & 247 taken hostage.
My entire life, groups of Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese have been murdering Jews of all ages & sexes, and then hiding behind their women & children. Inev
Inevitably, the world reacts as you have, and tells the Jews to just keep eating the losses. Fortunately, serious times bring us serious leaders, whether Churchill, FDR, Curtis LeMay or Netanyahu, who bring to bear the realization that victory is not without its moral cost, but that intentionally losing a war to avoid one’s personal moral qualms is obscene betrayal.
"...hiding behind their women & children."
Saw this in real life for the first time on Sweden in the 1990s. Don't know what it was about, don't remember and don't care - but one group of arabs was protesting outside some embassy, and another group was protesting the protesters.
When police wanted to separate them, both groups immediately had their women - with stollers! - take the front rank.
That tells you all you need to know about arab "civilisation".
Sad but illuminating. So hiding behind strollers & mothers from beat cops, and in basements under them from bombs.
I did a little research & math: Gaza’s population has ≈25% military age males in a population of 2 million, so an eligible force of ≈500K. (I leave out the females b/c they would.) The IDF has a active force of 170K and a reserve of 465K. If the IDF is like every other army, the combat arms represent a comparatively smaller % of the force structure vs. the support functions necessary to keep the fighters supplied.
If the Palestinians REALLY believed in the Koran & 72 virgins, etc. etc., they’d equip every MAM with a rifle and march en mass into Israel – all 500K of them. Kind of a reverse “Children’s Crusade.” This would present the Israelis with a problem – their entire defense strategy is predicated on armor and airplanes, and of course, Palestinian personal cowardice.
One of my books (that I own, I'm no author) the writer takes and in-depth look of how the militaries of the region surrounding Israel were re-made after colonial rule ended.
A few things stand out, to the casual reader:
1) Long-standing alliances with nazi-Germany, especially from arabs living in what is today Palestine, led to virtually every nation that could do so recruiting former Wehrmacht, Gestapo, SS, and other such personnel. Not one or two, but on par with Operation: Paperclip or even greater in scope.
2) The germans in question noted that arabs were then (and remain today) the possibly worst material for soldiers in the world, due to their culturally conditioned zero-trust mentality. The soldiers didn't trust each other to provide support and back up or to advance in concert, the officers had the same issues and so di the commanding echelons who'd jockey for every opportunity to place more members of their own clan in prominent positions before any other considerations. One exercise where german-commanded egyptian forces trained for an assault over Sinai into Israel (1950s) resulted in a big nothing: neither the northern, central or southern group would advance because none of them trusted the others to advance with them. All of them expected the others to have them be the first ones fed into the israeli army. This included air force, artillery, AA-artillery, armour and infantry both on foot and mechanised.
Point 2 is what makes your scenario unlikely. Arabs have always won their wars by overwhelming force in frontal assaults or by attrition, and in the latter case attrition means years of banditry, sabotage, plunder and low-impact attacks until the occupier simply packs up and leaves or surrenders from exhaustion.
They are very good at violence, and very bad at war, is one to put it.
Biden's cabinet is laden with people very friendly to Israel. Are you thinking maybe of . . . )))Barack Hussein Obama(((?
This just in, effete political appointee flag officers, midwit bureaucrats, and even stupider elected politicians plan on sending US troops into harms way in a middle east mission with zero national security benefits for the American people…in other breaking news, the sun is expected to rise in the east tomorrow morning…
As someone who spent a dozen years helping grow and secure the empire as combat service support for the legions, I’m not sure what’s more laughable, the idea that anyone above battalion (maybe regimental) command gives a single shit about getting a few troops ground up into hamburger meat as long as their agenda is being met, or the idea that calling or writing the cowardly politicians that we’ve sent to DC who have all been cucked by the military industrial complex and certain foreign governments would make any difference whatsoever…
Why do the words Mogadishu and Beirut come to mind?
I can see so many ways this goes horribly wrong. The only way it works (for versions of works that mean US forces remain alive) is if the port goes in at the northern end of the strip which has been mostly pacified and then the IDF distributes the aid from it.
That obviously doesn't help the "poor starving gazan refugees" in Rafah which Biden('s handlers) care about
Somalia 2.0
“…the key point here is that if Hamas truly believes that the people, the Palestinian people are suffering, then why would they want to take this aid and use it for themselves to support their terrorist organization?”
I didn’t realize the DoD was giving direct commissions at the O-8 level to Oberlin humanities professors…
Told you so, he said bitterly. They will knowlingly put US soldiers in harm's way to get their pretext for a "peace-keeping action".
Welcome to the eternal war. It seems US political and military leadership no longer studies US intervention against the slavers and pirates of what is now Libya, Algeria, Tunisia and surrounding areas.
Overwhelming force, meaning tens of thousands if not a hundred thousand soldiers alone with all the other forces to back them up, in Gaza alone - which will necessitate going into Palestine proper and also into Lebanon.
Plus going into Jemen, Quatar, and other Gulf States and taking out all Hamas leadership and allies. Plus somehow getting egyptians and saudis to hand over any and all Hamas supporting persons and personnel in their nations' organisations.
That's what this has the potential to escalate into for the US: a war approaching WW2 levels. It would mean tremendous problems with transports via Suez, serving to make the capitalist rober barons of the US even richer when they can amp up prices even further using the rax-funded war for profit as an excuse. It will mean enomrously more expensive fuel since oil production will drop towards zero in MENA - you don't think "drill baby drill" will mean /lowered/ prices under such circumstances, do you?
It will mean needing to quickly bribe Russia to play nice, meaning handing half of Ukraine over to them (unless your military is /really/ retarded and wants to go in for a two-dfront or even three-front war - Taiwan).
It will mean asking NATO-members for military aid, something that may be impossible for nations such as Germany, Britain and France. Not due to lagging investments in their military but because they have millions of people sympathetic to palestinians on their soil, foreigners that already hate them and that already murder, rape and plunder as a matter of fact - to arabs, it's not a crime if it's done against infidels and "crusader peoples". So military may very well be needed to keep some peace at home instead of going abroad.
This has the makings of being very, very profitable. And since the only metric of ethics under capitalism is Profit = Good, you just might have seen the Pentagon decide the equivalent of Anschluss.
If the US wants to create peace in the region in and around Israel, you'd need millions of soldiers there permanently, and you would need military colonial rule keeping both jew and arab under foot. Or go the route of Ramses II, Alexander and Octavian.
And how likely is that?
“…into Palestine proper…”
What is “Palestine proper?” Judea & Samaria are the very core of the Jewish homeland (historically, if not legally at present). And “Gaza” exists solely because it happened to be the land controlled by Egyptian forces at the end of the 1948 War. It has no historical significance as a region.
I’m reminded of a quote from “Lawrence of Arabia”:
“Sherif Ali, so long as the Arabs fight tribe against tribe, so long will they be a little people, a silly people, greedy, barbarous, and cruel, as you are.”
That pretty well sums up Hamas and the Palestinians.
In 2014, due to internal politicking from the Socialist Democrats, Greens, Communists, Christian Democrats and Liberals as well as our Libertarians, Sweden acknowledged Palestine as a state.
Hence, "Palestine proper".
Besides, a state exists if enough other states with enough power acknowledge it to do so: otherwise, Israel would not exist. The historical record is (apart from actual history) nothing but a justification of such acknowledgements, or lack thereof.
I like your approach, but there’s a difference between a state and a large gang of terrorists. I don’t immediately recall any other states that are solely “anti-matter” – the Palestinians exist solely to oppose Israel.
No arguement there - the arabs of that area, the ones that didn't wind up in Jordan or in camps in surrounding areas (where the third and fourth and even fifth generation palestinian arabs eke out a bleak existence as slaves to other arab tribes) have been used and abused as an excuse for the surrounding states, who would like to see Israel cease to exist.
"Funny" thing about that is, /when/ the arabs finally grind Israel to dust, which is inevitable - the first thing that will happen is that the various arab states will start going to war with each other.
So what you're saying is nuclear war is on the table?......
Wouldn't go that far - too risky for the powers wanting to profit from war.
However, if Israel would be threatened for real, they would probably deploy their Samson-plan, if able. (Think it was called Samson? It's been twenty-plus years since I read about it.)
Meaning they would not only target military targets but also moslem population centers, Mekka, and some european cities in retaliation.
China, US, Russia, India, Pakistan deploying nuclear weapons is such a long-shot I'd rate it somewhere with Biden being honest and coherent in probability.
I was being facetious!
But nonetheless, once again America sticking its nose where it doesn't belong
Ah-huh. Apologies - but we both remember the latter-stage Cold War and the "Doomsday Clock", and how every conflict was speculated by media as the prelude to gloal thermonuclear war, don't we?
I also have this sneaking suspicion that the nuclear powers are vastly over-stating their arsenals and capabilities these days: with MAD and deterrence off the table nowadays, nuclear weapons are more a last-resort defensive measure and a matter of pride, than an actual strategic/tactical weapon.
Nuclear tangent:
I mean for crying out loud - even Sweden had a nuclear weapons programme back in the day! The idea was to produce thousands of 1.5 kiloton warheads that could be fired from the Bofors Bandkanon 155, giving us the option to blanket a Soviet invasion force with nuclear artillety. For real, the idea was to be capable of a nuclear barrage, with up to a dozen vehicles in synch, firing in a grid pattern. The Bandkanon was pretty awesome for its time, but sadly our politicians ruined the project (not the nuclear weapons, Bandkanon was perfectly fine with conventional shells).
The Wiki-article claims it as a myth, due to the US not being willing to export its W48 atomic shell.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15,5_cm_bandkanon_1
Yeah I agree with everything you're saying