I often make jokes and sarcastic comments about living in clown world but this sort of behavior is genuinely terrifying and leads to the worst place imaginable.
The crux of the matter is as follows: These people on the podium running the meeting risk no punishment for blatant violation of a citizens First Amendment rights. The citizen is taken away and only gets reinstated after a long legal proceedings which so far are successful. The violator didn't lose any sleep. He/she gets to do it again on some other pretext. How about automatic 30 days in the slammer for taking away First Amendment rights in a public meeting adducted by the nearest Justice of the Peace or Notary Public? No wait.Have some one of authority attend such open, public comment type meetings who is empowered to eject the person on the podium at the same time that person had the citizen ejected. This petty shadow of a police state behavior has to stop real quicklike.
I rather like this idea. A federally empowered force of Constitutional Guardians, whose remit is to enforce the Constitution, with powers to fine and arrest officials found to be acting contrary to the document. Sort of like air marshals but for public meetings.
They could be sicced on the central offices of Big Tech, too.
You are never going to get a criminal statute concerning violation of the First Amendment passed, BUT, you definitely have the right to sue civilly in Federal Court. You'll just have to find a lawyer or law firm willing to take the case. The good thing is, if you win even 1 dollar, you are automatically entitled to having your lawyer fees paid. And once you set precedent by winning such suit, you can quote the judge's verdict in future instances. And if they similarly violate your rights again, you can sue again, and will likely be entitled to punitive damages if you win. The Mayor and Board members may be protected by absolute immunity... but the city is not. Let their risk management insurance firm have to pay out some serious damages and see if the clowns ever try to cut anyone off again.
If I interpret you correctly you interpret my comment as a call for a sweeping federal law to zap these tinhorn tyrants wherever federal law enforcement finds them. I'm thinking limited scope local ordinance. Limited to meetings called specifically to solicit public comment on local or state government actions directly affecting the city, county or state citizens. The law needs to be real simple to state and understand. You know, like the Second Amendment to the Constitution. The scope of enforcement would match the scope of legal jurisdiction of the government entity that established the law. We need patriotic termites chewing away at the shadow police state being formed across what use to be the land of the free. The concentrated corruption of the federal government makes any federal step toward freedom futile. Let's make the burden of their defense a personal liability of the tinhorn commandants.
I like your idea..... but I just don't think you are ever going to get even a local criminal ordinance that protects against First Amendment violations passed. And even if you did, you'd not get local D/As to prosecute it in most cases.
I have 25 years in law enforcement, including as a Chief of Police (now retired). And I can tell you unequivocally local politics are the bane of local police existence. Several times I had local officials ask me to do things that were patently illegal to do... such as run through the state computer system on a fishing expedition trying to find something they could use against their local political opponents. You explain to them it's illegal and refuse to do it, and you become their enemy. And then the games really start.
A good friend of mine who was a Chief of Police in a small town refused to accommodate his city manager on just such an issue. The manager had him over to her house for a confab with local officials, and fed him three or four glasses of wine. Then when he left, she called the Highway Patrol and reported him as a drunk driver. The CHP stopped him, and was just over the limit, and was arrested for DUI. Now the CM had cause to fire him and did. There's no question he was wrong to have drunk the wine and driven. And there's no question he should have seen the trap and avoided it..... but didn't. The example is to show you how petty local politics can get.
When you start talking 'criminal' statute application against government, the only way it is ever going to be enforced is if the D/A has something personal against the CM or Mayor. That's just fact. It's like asking Merrick Garland to prosecute someone in Biden's administration for what is in affect a petty crime. It's just not going to happen.
However, if you REALLY want to nail someone on the city council or the CM or Mayor's office, have someone bring a case against the City for some kind of civil rights violation, and just for bringing the case (even before it is adjudicated), the city's risk management insurance company (very few cities are self-insured. Most pay a monthly fee for risk management insurance) will spike their monthly insurance rates in anticipation of that and future law suits because of city management's boundary pushing. Double the insurance payment each month (ours once went from $35k/ mo to $77k/mo because of required training that the city refused to fund) and it REALLY gets management's attention.
In fact, if you have someone being abusive, contact the city's risk management carrier and just threaten to sue and tell them what it is for, and I can virtually guarantee you they will contact the offending city official and advise them to knock off the offending behavior so rates don't have to be raised. It's a lot more effective than trying to fight the city personnel directly. You can often get behavior modified in a few days, rather than fighting them for months on end and making a political enemy of yourself (which is not good if you are also a city employee) in the process.
1.) Very interesting insider perspective, and thank you for taking the time.
2.) I've seen this firsthand in small towns, as a newspaper reporter and as a resident complaining about bad government. When I complained about early Covid policy, a (now-departed) city manager asked the police department to do a "threat assessment" to determine if I was a domestic terrorist, and the mayor emailed a long list of people to assure them I was about to be arrested and sent to prison. The police chief stopped by, drank coffee in my back yard and told me about it, and left. Had zero concerns about the police, who were obviously unimpressed by the politics of the maneuver.
In other news, I caught a member of our city council using fake names and Gmail alias addresses to attack and smear critics with fake public comments and widely distributed false allegations about child molestation and the like. I sent the messages, and the evidence that the council member sent them, to the DA's Public Integrity Division, with the suggestion that they might find many more examples of fake-name threats and interventions in things like lawsuits against the city. They closed the file shortly after they got it, and didn't bother to tell anyone for over a year that they had decided not to pursue it.
I am flattered that you devoted so much time and so many words to address the suggestion in my comment. I don't for a moment question the plausibly deniable local corruption with which you have personal experience. Men and women are being handcuffed and forcibly removed from public gatherings, not because of their behavior, but because of what they are saying publicly. That is not America basking in the freedoms afforded by our Constitution. I take you it that you see the Achilles Heal of my suggestion being DA's that won't prosecute. So pass a law that states non prosecution of unquestionable violation of the new freedom of speech ordinance results in immediate termination of employment for the DA. Your reaction is a pragmatic "you'll never get a law like that adopted." I presume those who reject such a law are elected or appointed by those that are elected. If they are elected directly or indirectly they can be dismissed by the voters. If there are not enough voters with the courage to see to it they are not reelected then America the Brave has become ia melancholy memory. I totally agree with you that a new law addressing this topic has no chance of effectively accomplishing its goal in the current political environment. BUT having the strength to follow the principles set down in the constitution via elections will trip up our would-be enslavers.
Do you have any idea how many people it would take to do this?
There is a major issue with all this about HOW to keep our rights from being violated. It's long been in place, but of late it's been ignored and kicked to the side, due to CORRUPTION. The solution is obvious: Strong punishment for those who violate anyone's Constitutional rights.
The issue here is HOW. The solution: We have to end the corruption.
It’s egregious. I was a county Deputy for 17 years in a rural Midwest county (that borders IA). I KNOW exactly how these small town mayors, council operate (and the police chiefs are puppets). What should happen is an Attorney General’s/IA DPS office investigation. This is misconduct of a public official. We had state statutes for this in my old state.
I retired as a deputy sheriff of 23 years. The City Hall meetings were like a circus! I have to admit, the city was pretty good about allowing anything to be said. And there was some CRAZY stuff! But they were allowed their allotted time to talk about the aliens taking up too many parking spaces.
This guy did absolutely nothing wrong. And his rights were definitely violated! I’d be embarrassed to take him into custody. What law did he violate? RIDICULOUS!
This kind of thing is relatively NEW, as is the widespread corruption in our country. When censorship got a toe-hold with Covid, it erupted, like a fire in a gas station...
Well, not really NEW, but on this level, it's not "normal."
It ALMOST goes without saying, but an important reason for brutalising the poor obese schlub is unrelated to the schlub's conduct or the content of his complaint.
It's to send a message; to let everyone know that if they kick against the traces, some tax-eater with a gun and badge will ruin their day (and possibly shoot their dog).
"Pour encourager les autres", as was famously said about the execution of an Admiral.
It stems from the fact that most politicians are ignorant of basic Constitutional rights. If they even had Civics or government in high school they didn’t pay any attention. And they think they are superior to citizens.
This reminds me of the arrests for vagrancy, loitering, disorderly conduct, and similarly vague bad behavior that supposedly were a key tool for county sheriffs in the South.
Last time Mr. Bray posted about an abusive City council, I posted a vid of Travis Heinze getting kicked out of Turtle Lake, Wisconsin for loitering. After a bigger channel picked up the story and a lot of concerned youtube viewers called in, the village repealed the ordinance. An apparent success story. Skip to 8:30 if you have a minute to witness a rare, small win.
We need to get back to vagrancy laws. Many cities are being overrun by the homeless. These people need help not enabling. Most of them have some sort of addiction and many are mentally ill. What is being allowed to go on is awful. This would not have ballooned out of control if there was not a ton of money in it somewhere. Who has the contract for all those tents? Who is providing legal help when they are in danger of being moved? Who is handing out food boxes? There are NGO's which have been created or expanded to suck off the public teat and throw good money after bad. Someone ought to look into it, (Chris Bray), and publish on it.
It's my opinion that the crowds of immigrants coming through our open borders and the crowds of mentally ill and drug users roaming around, is a DELIBERATE and PLANNED part of the destruction of this country, well under way, and this winter will be one of the hardest we've seen probably ever, because it will have been manufactured... All the food being destroyed, processing plants burning down, animals being destroyed... I don't think people really understand the Evil we're dealing with.
Alex Story is very well read and well versed on the demonic movement we are witnessing to drastically reduce the population. It apparently has a long history, which he traces. It is a very intelligent conversation. Engrossing.
This is seemingly becoming endemic across the country and yes, this needs to drill down to the very individual or individuals who perpetuate it. It seems like the majority of politicians quickly forget the BS they spewed to get elected and act insulted that you expect them to do their jobs. That officer put the handcuffs on the wrong person. They belong on that arrogant mayor.
Let's encourage high school civics classes ( do they still have such a thing? ) to have a contest among the local high schools. The award would go to the class that drafted the clearest, most easily enforced, most appeal resistant law punishing attempts to abridge First Amendment rights at public meetings specifically held to hear citizen comment on the issues of the day. The award would take the form of a locally enforceable law made part of local governance. Maybe the Leadership Institute would be interested in fostering such efforts across the fruited plain.
Ignorance of the constitution or laws is of course no excuse. Prosecute a few of these fool mayors and police chiefs for violation of 1A and and even the 4A where it applies. That will stop most of this garbage.
Only intellectual cowards, charlatans, and liars don’t like counter argument, questions, or open dialogue. The narrative cannot be controlled if free/critical thought and open dialogue is permitted. Therefore, it must be banished to retain control.
We already have laws, what we need is to END the corruption in our country.
That is most easily done at the local level, with the local political entities... If the entire country solved their own problems on a COUNTY level, we could clean up this mess pretty snappy.
While it may be a bit unpleasant to hear someone say things we don't agree with or don't ENJOY, the main reason, in my opinion, that we're in this situation we're in today, is because of a serious and egregious disregard for the First Amendment here in the USA, the cradle of the Covid Lie, and coupled with the part of the NDAA from 2012, the legality of the government being able to LIE to the People with impunity. If not for the abandonment of the First Amendment by much of the "authorities" running this country, we could have had a national conversation, and reasonable debates, about what Covid is, what was done to us in the name of "safety," and what continues to keep a lot of people from discussing their rights being violated and from being able to obtain work, and from the mainstream of the population being able to understand the violations that have happened to whistle blowers, from doctors to journalists to data keepers to any number of concerned citizens simply seeking the facts and/or the truth.
This is what the Founders meant when they said ALL OTHER FREEDOMS depend on a Free Press and Freedom of Speech for every person. This is not a "privilege," it is an INALIENABLE RIGHT, and therefore NO ONE has the authority to take it from us.
I often make jokes and sarcastic comments about living in clown world but this sort of behavior is genuinely terrifying and leads to the worst place imaginable.
PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK RIGHT NOW
Get used to those words if you have your own opinions
It's cost me the ability to work.
The crux of the matter is as follows: These people on the podium running the meeting risk no punishment for blatant violation of a citizens First Amendment rights. The citizen is taken away and only gets reinstated after a long legal proceedings which so far are successful. The violator didn't lose any sleep. He/she gets to do it again on some other pretext. How about automatic 30 days in the slammer for taking away First Amendment rights in a public meeting adducted by the nearest Justice of the Peace or Notary Public? No wait.Have some one of authority attend such open, public comment type meetings who is empowered to eject the person on the podium at the same time that person had the citizen ejected. This petty shadow of a police state behavior has to stop real quicklike.
I would like to see mayors handcuffed for doing this, yes.
I rather like this idea. A federally empowered force of Constitutional Guardians, whose remit is to enforce the Constitution, with powers to fine and arrest officials found to be acting contrary to the document. Sort of like air marshals but for public meetings.
They could be sicced on the central offices of Big Tech, too.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
You are never going to get a criminal statute concerning violation of the First Amendment passed, BUT, you definitely have the right to sue civilly in Federal Court. You'll just have to find a lawyer or law firm willing to take the case. The good thing is, if you win even 1 dollar, you are automatically entitled to having your lawyer fees paid. And once you set precedent by winning such suit, you can quote the judge's verdict in future instances. And if they similarly violate your rights again, you can sue again, and will likely be entitled to punitive damages if you win. The Mayor and Board members may be protected by absolute immunity... but the city is not. Let their risk management insurance firm have to pay out some serious damages and see if the clowns ever try to cut anyone off again.
If I interpret you correctly you interpret my comment as a call for a sweeping federal law to zap these tinhorn tyrants wherever federal law enforcement finds them. I'm thinking limited scope local ordinance. Limited to meetings called specifically to solicit public comment on local or state government actions directly affecting the city, county or state citizens. The law needs to be real simple to state and understand. You know, like the Second Amendment to the Constitution. The scope of enforcement would match the scope of legal jurisdiction of the government entity that established the law. We need patriotic termites chewing away at the shadow police state being formed across what use to be the land of the free. The concentrated corruption of the federal government makes any federal step toward freedom futile. Let's make the burden of their defense a personal liability of the tinhorn commandants.
I like your idea..... but I just don't think you are ever going to get even a local criminal ordinance that protects against First Amendment violations passed. And even if you did, you'd not get local D/As to prosecute it in most cases.
I have 25 years in law enforcement, including as a Chief of Police (now retired). And I can tell you unequivocally local politics are the bane of local police existence. Several times I had local officials ask me to do things that were patently illegal to do... such as run through the state computer system on a fishing expedition trying to find something they could use against their local political opponents. You explain to them it's illegal and refuse to do it, and you become their enemy. And then the games really start.
A good friend of mine who was a Chief of Police in a small town refused to accommodate his city manager on just such an issue. The manager had him over to her house for a confab with local officials, and fed him three or four glasses of wine. Then when he left, she called the Highway Patrol and reported him as a drunk driver. The CHP stopped him, and was just over the limit, and was arrested for DUI. Now the CM had cause to fire him and did. There's no question he was wrong to have drunk the wine and driven. And there's no question he should have seen the trap and avoided it..... but didn't. The example is to show you how petty local politics can get.
When you start talking 'criminal' statute application against government, the only way it is ever going to be enforced is if the D/A has something personal against the CM or Mayor. That's just fact. It's like asking Merrick Garland to prosecute someone in Biden's administration for what is in affect a petty crime. It's just not going to happen.
However, if you REALLY want to nail someone on the city council or the CM or Mayor's office, have someone bring a case against the City for some kind of civil rights violation, and just for bringing the case (even before it is adjudicated), the city's risk management insurance company (very few cities are self-insured. Most pay a monthly fee for risk management insurance) will spike their monthly insurance rates in anticipation of that and future law suits because of city management's boundary pushing. Double the insurance payment each month (ours once went from $35k/ mo to $77k/mo because of required training that the city refused to fund) and it REALLY gets management's attention.
In fact, if you have someone being abusive, contact the city's risk management carrier and just threaten to sue and tell them what it is for, and I can virtually guarantee you they will contact the offending city official and advise them to knock off the offending behavior so rates don't have to be raised. It's a lot more effective than trying to fight the city personnel directly. You can often get behavior modified in a few days, rather than fighting them for months on end and making a political enemy of yourself (which is not good if you are also a city employee) in the process.
1.) Very interesting insider perspective, and thank you for taking the time.
2.) I've seen this firsthand in small towns, as a newspaper reporter and as a resident complaining about bad government. When I complained about early Covid policy, a (now-departed) city manager asked the police department to do a "threat assessment" to determine if I was a domestic terrorist, and the mayor emailed a long list of people to assure them I was about to be arrested and sent to prison. The police chief stopped by, drank coffee in my back yard and told me about it, and left. Had zero concerns about the police, who were obviously unimpressed by the politics of the maneuver.
In other news, I caught a member of our city council using fake names and Gmail alias addresses to attack and smear critics with fake public comments and widely distributed false allegations about child molestation and the like. I sent the messages, and the evidence that the council member sent them, to the DA's Public Integrity Division, with the suggestion that they might find many more examples of fake-name threats and interventions in things like lawsuits against the city. They closed the file shortly after they got it, and didn't bother to tell anyone for over a year that they had decided not to pursue it.
The viciousness of small town politics. Yes.
I am flattered that you devoted so much time and so many words to address the suggestion in my comment. I don't for a moment question the plausibly deniable local corruption with which you have personal experience. Men and women are being handcuffed and forcibly removed from public gatherings, not because of their behavior, but because of what they are saying publicly. That is not America basking in the freedoms afforded by our Constitution. I take you it that you see the Achilles Heal of my suggestion being DA's that won't prosecute. So pass a law that states non prosecution of unquestionable violation of the new freedom of speech ordinance results in immediate termination of employment for the DA. Your reaction is a pragmatic "you'll never get a law like that adopted." I presume those who reject such a law are elected or appointed by those that are elected. If they are elected directly or indirectly they can be dismissed by the voters. If there are not enough voters with the courage to see to it they are not reelected then America the Brave has become ia melancholy memory. I totally agree with you that a new law addressing this topic has no chance of effectively accomplishing its goal in the current political environment. BUT having the strength to follow the principles set down in the constitution via elections will trip up our would-be enslavers.
Do you have any idea how many people it would take to do this?
There is a major issue with all this about HOW to keep our rights from being violated. It's long been in place, but of late it's been ignored and kicked to the side, due to CORRUPTION. The solution is obvious: Strong punishment for those who violate anyone's Constitutional rights.
The issue here is HOW. The solution: We have to end the corruption.
You'll NEVER get a criminal stature passed, but you can sue the city civilly.
It’s egregious. I was a county Deputy for 17 years in a rural Midwest county (that borders IA). I KNOW exactly how these small town mayors, council operate (and the police chiefs are puppets). What should happen is an Attorney General’s/IA DPS office investigation. This is misconduct of a public official. We had state statutes for this in my old state.
I retired as a deputy sheriff of 23 years. The City Hall meetings were like a circus! I have to admit, the city was pretty good about allowing anything to be said. And there was some CRAZY stuff! But they were allowed their allotted time to talk about the aliens taking up too many parking spaces.
This guy did absolutely nothing wrong. And his rights were definitely violated! I’d be embarrassed to take him into custody. What law did he violate? RIDICULOUS!
This kind of thing is relatively NEW, as is the widespread corruption in our country. When censorship got a toe-hold with Covid, it erupted, like a fire in a gas station...
Well, not really NEW, but on this level, it's not "normal."
It ALMOST goes without saying, but an important reason for brutalising the poor obese schlub is unrelated to the schlub's conduct or the content of his complaint.
It's to send a message; to let everyone know that if they kick against the traces, some tax-eater with a gun and badge will ruin their day (and possibly shoot their dog).
"Pour encourager les autres", as was famously said about the execution of an Admiral.
It stems from the fact that most politicians are ignorant of basic Constitutional rights. If they even had Civics or government in high school they didn’t pay any attention. And they think they are superior to citizens.
This reminds me of the arrests for vagrancy, loitering, disorderly conduct, and similarly vague bad behavior that supposedly were a key tool for county sheriffs in the South.
Last time Mr. Bray posted about an abusive City council, I posted a vid of Travis Heinze getting kicked out of Turtle Lake, Wisconsin for loitering. After a bigger channel picked up the story and a lot of concerned youtube viewers called in, the village repealed the ordinance. An apparent success story. Skip to 8:30 if you have a minute to witness a rare, small win.
https://youtu.be/FS5ZcVf_pow
We need to get back to vagrancy laws. Many cities are being overrun by the homeless. These people need help not enabling. Most of them have some sort of addiction and many are mentally ill. What is being allowed to go on is awful. This would not have ballooned out of control if there was not a ton of money in it somewhere. Who has the contract for all those tents? Who is providing legal help when they are in danger of being moved? Who is handing out food boxes? There are NGO's which have been created or expanded to suck off the public teat and throw good money after bad. Someone ought to look into it, (Chris Bray), and publish on it.
It's my opinion that the crowds of immigrants coming through our open borders and the crowds of mentally ill and drug users roaming around, is a DELIBERATE and PLANNED part of the destruction of this country, well under way, and this winter will be one of the hardest we've seen probably ever, because it will have been manufactured... All the food being destroyed, processing plants burning down, animals being destroyed... I don't think people really understand the Evil we're dealing with.
There's a lot of truth in what you say. I listened to Jordan Peterson's interview with Alex Story. I highly recommend it.
Jordan Peterson GETS IT. He's great. Cheers.
BOOM💥
Got the link to that?
https://youtu.be/ZAaY0gbis4s
Ta!
Alex Story is very well read and well versed on the demonic movement we are witnessing to drastically reduce the population. It apparently has a long history, which he traces. It is a very intelligent conversation. Engrossing.
You couldn’t get arrested for any of these offenses today.
Unless you are white.
This is seemingly becoming endemic across the country and yes, this needs to drill down to the very individual or individuals who perpetuate it. It seems like the majority of politicians quickly forget the BS they spewed to get elected and act insulted that you expect them to do their jobs. That officer put the handcuffs on the wrong person. They belong on that arrogant mayor.
When public servants forget WE the PEOPLE are their boss, it's a pretty quick slide into tyranny.
Let's encourage high school civics classes ( do they still have such a thing? ) to have a contest among the local high schools. The award would go to the class that drafted the clearest, most easily enforced, most appeal resistant law punishing attempts to abridge First Amendment rights at public meetings specifically held to hear citizen comment on the issues of the day. The award would take the form of a locally enforceable law made part of local governance. Maybe the Leadership Institute would be interested in fostering such efforts across the fruited plain.
...thank you....and I will keep sharing and posting........
Ignorance of the constitution or laws is of course no excuse. Prosecute a few of these fool mayors and police chiefs for violation of 1A and and even the 4A where it applies. That will stop most of this garbage.
SCOTUS 1964 New York Times v. Sullivan.
Only intellectual cowards, charlatans, and liars don’t like counter argument, questions, or open dialogue. The narrative cannot be controlled if free/critical thought and open dialogue is permitted. Therefore, it must be banished to retain control.
That behavior qualifies for immediate tarring and feathering of everyone responsible.
Uh, no. Mobs of vigilantes is NOT helpful.
We already have laws, what we need is to END the corruption in our country.
That is most easily done at the local level, with the local political entities... If the entire country solved their own problems on a COUNTY level, we could clean up this mess pretty snappy.
I live in Iowa. I am sad this happened here. If it can then it can be anywhere!
While it may be a bit unpleasant to hear someone say things we don't agree with or don't ENJOY, the main reason, in my opinion, that we're in this situation we're in today, is because of a serious and egregious disregard for the First Amendment here in the USA, the cradle of the Covid Lie, and coupled with the part of the NDAA from 2012, the legality of the government being able to LIE to the People with impunity. If not for the abandonment of the First Amendment by much of the "authorities" running this country, we could have had a national conversation, and reasonable debates, about what Covid is, what was done to us in the name of "safety," and what continues to keep a lot of people from discussing their rights being violated and from being able to obtain work, and from the mainstream of the population being able to understand the violations that have happened to whistle blowers, from doctors to journalists to data keepers to any number of concerned citizens simply seeking the facts and/or the truth.
This is what the Founders meant when they said ALL OTHER FREEDOMS depend on a Free Press and Freedom of Speech for every person. This is not a "privilege," it is an INALIENABLE RIGHT, and therefore NO ONE has the authority to take it from us.
Ugh!