So this is what I love about Substack- it elevates the convo to a level that we just don’t see in educated society anymore. 3 gentlemen having a real, relevant, in-depth conversation about a complex man, a human man, a struggling father and a veteran. No victim-speak, no trashing of the deceased, no making of excuses. Thank you; this was terribly profound.
For all its negative externalities, occurrences like this make me grateful for the internet. What a wonderful and unexpected way for disparate people to find and share with each other.
I grew up in a military family. My Mom's Dad was a CWO in the Army (WWII). My Dad did a hitch in the Army, his brother the Navy. Their father retired as Command Sgt Major in the Army, having served in WWII and Korea. He retired in '68. He was up for the Sgt Major Of The Army, but he did not want to move to Washington. I talked with him a bit about his experiences but, he was pretty cagey about them. In retrospect, it seems he was a functional alcoholic. And, yes, his kids were defin. affected. All my uncles from that generation also served in the Army as well. Many were decorated men. It is interesting that all of these men mentioned, kept these things to themselves. And, at least in my family, they all stayed married to their first wives, went to church and "kept it together". Some of them defin. were "flawed" in their life actions. And some were more resolute and seemed quite normal. Of course, I don't know and didn't know then, what those might have been thru in comparison to the rest. But I always respected them, and I still think about them often to this day.
Sorry for the belatedness of this comment; I actually typed it the day after your essay appeared, and just now stumbled across it in "Notes."
Thanks for this essay; it was excellent, and Lt. Col. Downard's sons' comments very moving.
My father was a navigator on a B-24 during WWII, and spent almost the last of the war as a POW in Germany, after his plane was shot down over Toulon, France during a bombing run on the German sub pens there. It was his 23rd mission. While his personal life was nothing like Lt. Col. Downard's--he married my mother in 1947, they had five children, and were married nearly 60 years when she died--he was nonetheless what could be called a 'hard' man, and I think my older brothers suffered because of it. This dynamic was exacerbated, as you might expect, during the late '60s and early '70s.
Many of these men had difficult childhoods due to the Great Depression (my dad said it was such a surprise, at his first posting for Army Air Corps training, that he could eat as much as he wanted at meals.) His upbringing, his own character, and then learning, at an age that seems impossibly youthful now, that almost every day could very easily be your last, made him tough. Being tough was how you survived returning to base to find out that friends you'd laughed with at breakfast were now dead, either because they'd been shot down or crashed on takeoff. Once, when he was in his late eighties, I typed up a long letter he had hand written to the wife of his tail gunner, who had written him asking for information about her husband, who had recently passed away. My father took the time to give her a detailed account of all his and Joe's experiences together, and one of the things he briefly mentioned was another member of the crew who didn't make it, because after exiting the plane, his burning clothes ignited and consumed his parachute. My dad said simply, "I'm glad I was unconscious and didn't see it." The only time he ever referenced what we now know as PTSD was late in his life. I was asking him questions and he confided that, upon his return home after he had been liberated, he had dated a girl (who was the mother of one of my classmates, as a child.) He seemed to be feeling some guilt, and I pieced together that it had been serious enough that the girl, her family, and his own family took it as a given that they were going to get married, but he had managed to remain in the military rather than be discharged, and had left. I said, "Everyone sort of assumed you could just come home, settle right back into life and leave the last three years behind?" He nodded, but didn't say more.
Sorry this is so long; just echoing that men who've been in combat are changed by it, in ways that people who haven't been cannot comprehend. My dad was fortunate that he grew up in a family that was stable, if poor, and that was not blighted by alcoholism or other pathologies, advantages which one suspects Lt. Col. Downward did not enjoy. So he did not have so many demons to wrestle, and his recipe for dealing with the effects of what we call PTSD was simply to not think about the events that caused it, and to move forward. Not ideal, of course. But these men who fought, the women who served, and the families who supported them, were the country's backbone. Given the state of our current military, the alarming propensity of too many young people to exist in a state of extended adolescence, without a real education or much in the way of skills, makes one doubt there is a strong enough spine anymore, to support the body politic.
Rush Limbaugh used to say that soldiers break things and kill people - it's their job. This is extremely important!! Most of the men in my family have been in the military and fought in WWII, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War; something I'm proud of and grateful for. I'm glad soldiers are out there, kicking @$$ and taking names. Higher-ups in the military are truly frightening - did they forget that their job is to break things and kill people? They have a stranglehold on the military...and on our country and our future.
I think you're onto something... My stepdad was a career Marine (Ooh-rah!) who enlisted and retired as a Captain. He had medals but I never saw them. He could do just about anything, and was a great dad to my brother, sister, and me. He was even a drill sergeant for a while.
He was not concerned with bullshirt like "understanding white rage." He kicked @$$ and took names. A true patriot!
Edward you are right. I’m married 30 years to a Naval Aviator with 3000 hours off the decks of the USS Eisenhower and USS Washington, and several hundred carrier landings at night, in sandstorms and in the Norwegian Sea. His motto, if he had a motto, would be “it’s hard to be humble when you are perfect in every way.” Failure has never been an option with this guy and although I do a lot of eye rolling I wouldn’t want anyone else defending me or my beloved USofA. Semper Fi.🇺🇸
There's a lot of solid evidence to support the idea that aggressive asshole behavior in a small percentage of total men is adaptive at a societal level. Despite what people think, even after boot camp indoctrination, it's still not easy to look at another person and kill them without hesitation. The people who CAN do that help your tribe stay alive.
So this is what I love about Substack- it elevates the convo to a level that we just don’t see in educated society anymore. 3 gentlemen having a real, relevant, in-depth conversation about a complex man, a human man, a struggling father and a veteran. No victim-speak, no trashing of the deceased, no making of excuses. Thank you; this was terribly profound.
BRAVO
You do good work Chris keep it up!
For all its negative externalities, occurrences like this make me grateful for the internet. What a wonderful and unexpected way for disparate people to find and share with each other.
how wonderful that they read your essay and responded. that was one of the first posts i read of yours
That was one of my favorite pieces of yours Chris and the comments from his 2 sons are extraordinary to read.
PTSD can consume a man, a family, a nation. For a great read by an Army vet with PTSD who has found solace in art and beauty, check out Jim Magner’s Substack PTSD and Art. https://open.substack.com/pub/ptsdart?r=t2t5x&utm_medium=ios
Thank you for this.
Makes it all worthwhile…
I grew up in a military family. My Mom's Dad was a CWO in the Army (WWII). My Dad did a hitch in the Army, his brother the Navy. Their father retired as Command Sgt Major in the Army, having served in WWII and Korea. He retired in '68. He was up for the Sgt Major Of The Army, but he did not want to move to Washington. I talked with him a bit about his experiences but, he was pretty cagey about them. In retrospect, it seems he was a functional alcoholic. And, yes, his kids were defin. affected. All my uncles from that generation also served in the Army as well. Many were decorated men. It is interesting that all of these men mentioned, kept these things to themselves. And, at least in my family, they all stayed married to their first wives, went to church and "kept it together". Some of them defin. were "flawed" in their life actions. And some were more resolute and seemed quite normal. Of course, I don't know and didn't know then, what those might have been thru in comparison to the rest. But I always respected them, and I still think about them often to this day.
Sorry for the belatedness of this comment; I actually typed it the day after your essay appeared, and just now stumbled across it in "Notes."
Thanks for this essay; it was excellent, and Lt. Col. Downard's sons' comments very moving.
My father was a navigator on a B-24 during WWII, and spent almost the last of the war as a POW in Germany, after his plane was shot down over Toulon, France during a bombing run on the German sub pens there. It was his 23rd mission. While his personal life was nothing like Lt. Col. Downard's--he married my mother in 1947, they had five children, and were married nearly 60 years when she died--he was nonetheless what could be called a 'hard' man, and I think my older brothers suffered because of it. This dynamic was exacerbated, as you might expect, during the late '60s and early '70s.
Many of these men had difficult childhoods due to the Great Depression (my dad said it was such a surprise, at his first posting for Army Air Corps training, that he could eat as much as he wanted at meals.) His upbringing, his own character, and then learning, at an age that seems impossibly youthful now, that almost every day could very easily be your last, made him tough. Being tough was how you survived returning to base to find out that friends you'd laughed with at breakfast were now dead, either because they'd been shot down or crashed on takeoff. Once, when he was in his late eighties, I typed up a long letter he had hand written to the wife of his tail gunner, who had written him asking for information about her husband, who had recently passed away. My father took the time to give her a detailed account of all his and Joe's experiences together, and one of the things he briefly mentioned was another member of the crew who didn't make it, because after exiting the plane, his burning clothes ignited and consumed his parachute. My dad said simply, "I'm glad I was unconscious and didn't see it." The only time he ever referenced what we now know as PTSD was late in his life. I was asking him questions and he confided that, upon his return home after he had been liberated, he had dated a girl (who was the mother of one of my classmates, as a child.) He seemed to be feeling some guilt, and I pieced together that it had been serious enough that the girl, her family, and his own family took it as a given that they were going to get married, but he had managed to remain in the military rather than be discharged, and had left. I said, "Everyone sort of assumed you could just come home, settle right back into life and leave the last three years behind?" He nodded, but didn't say more.
Sorry this is so long; just echoing that men who've been in combat are changed by it, in ways that people who haven't been cannot comprehend. My dad was fortunate that he grew up in a family that was stable, if poor, and that was not blighted by alcoholism or other pathologies, advantages which one suspects Lt. Col. Downward did not enjoy. So he did not have so many demons to wrestle, and his recipe for dealing with the effects of what we call PTSD was simply to not think about the events that caused it, and to move forward. Not ideal, of course. But these men who fought, the women who served, and the families who supported them, were the country's backbone. Given the state of our current military, the alarming propensity of too many young people to exist in a state of extended adolescence, without a real education or much in the way of skills, makes one doubt there is a strong enough spine anymore, to support the body politic.
Thank you for this -- I'm glad you posted it.
We love “Die Hard” for a reason.
Rush Limbaugh used to say that soldiers break things and kill people - it's their job. This is extremely important!! Most of the men in my family have been in the military and fought in WWII, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War; something I'm proud of and grateful for. I'm glad soldiers are out there, kicking @$$ and taking names. Higher-ups in the military are truly frightening - did they forget that their job is to break things and kill people? They have a stranglehold on the military...and on our country and our future.
I think you're onto something... My stepdad was a career Marine (Ooh-rah!) who enlisted and retired as a Captain. He had medals but I never saw them. He could do just about anything, and was a great dad to my brother, sister, and me. He was even a drill sergeant for a while.
He was not concerned with bullshirt like "understanding white rage." He kicked @$$ and took names. A true patriot!
Edward you are right. I’m married 30 years to a Naval Aviator with 3000 hours off the decks of the USS Eisenhower and USS Washington, and several hundred carrier landings at night, in sandstorms and in the Norwegian Sea. His motto, if he had a motto, would be “it’s hard to be humble when you are perfect in every way.” Failure has never been an option with this guy and although I do a lot of eye rolling I wouldn’t want anyone else defending me or my beloved USofA. Semper Fi.🇺🇸
There's a lot of solid evidence to support the idea that aggressive asshole behavior in a small percentage of total men is adaptive at a societal level. Despite what people think, even after boot camp indoctrination, it's still not easy to look at another person and kill them without hesitation. The people who CAN do that help your tribe stay alive.